Borntoolate

Thoughts on how to use this block to make striking anvil?

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I have acquired a hunk of steel and was planning to make a striking anvil from it.   Short of putting legs on it and a hardy hole are there any other thoughts?  Most striking anvils are longer than they are wide.  Well the ones I have seen are.... I suspect I could cut this and make two small ones but I have no need of that.   Is there an issue with this being nearly square?   I am thinking the added area may be useful for something...     Any dos or don'ts about where to put the 1.0"  hardy?    I am good with any thoughts or ideas whatsoever!

IMG_1176.thumb.JPG.b3d789a472e1ee36e29a8

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I'd build a stand to hold it on edge at a level where when stood shortest dimension up it's at your comfortable general forging height. The additional 1.75" height when rotated 1/4 turn will be better for fine or finish work. You'll need to take a grinder and sanding disks to shine up the torched edges and do a little radiusing and it'll be an outstanding anvil.

Now you're thinking about rotating it in the stand consider the shapes you can grind in different faces for different jobs. If you're dead set on a hardy hole I'd build a portable hole they have a LOT more utility than the ones in anvils.

If you have the facilities to machine it in a pretty cool bell or is it a whistle would be a dovetail. A dovetail would allow very solid attachment of special bottom tooling a hardy being a super basic one. There have been videos of a knife maker in England I believe who used an anvil with dovetailed tooling.

It wouldn't only have to be bottom tooling like swages but you could make spring dies, guided punches and all kinds of cool tools.

The last thing I'd do is lay it flat and loose that beautiful depth of rebound.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Per Frosty's suggestion, there's a thread here about an IFI member who got a toolmaker's anvil (also known as a cutler's anvil) and made some tooling for it.

The video he mentions can be seen here. The bits showing the anvil and its tooling start around 3:34.

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That should work just fine. I came in 2 1/2 inches with my hardy hole. I added a 1 inch thick plate under the striking anvil so I would have room to weld on the tube steel legs. With the wide body you should have room to weld the legs direct to the anvil. I filled the tube steel legs with oil soaked sand per Brian Brazeal method.

He said "Striking anvil" Frosty not forging anvil

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8 hours ago, clinton said:

My striking anvil

dimensions?? how wide is it? thanks!

                                                                                  Littleblacksmith

 

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My guess would be 3x8" on the face 4" tall plus the plate which is 1" on what looks like 3" square legs. 

But im just guessing looking at the picture. I am curious to see just how far off I am. :) 

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22 hours ago, JHCC said:
9 hours ago, clinton said:

 

He said "Striking anvil" Frosty not forging anvil

 

Yes, my reading comprehension is good enough to recognize that. I curbed my semantic alter ego by NOT pointing out what an anvil is. An anvil is STRUCK. If it isn't struck it is NOT an anvil. "Striking anvil" is a redundant phrase. Should I ask you to explain how you can do any "forging" on an anvil without striking?

Laying a beautiful piece of steel like that on the flat and wasting all that depth of rebound makes a whole lot of sense. Don't you think?

Frosty The Lucky.

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23 hours ago, Frosty said:

I'd build a stand to hold it on edge at a level where when stood shortest dimension up it's at your comfortable general forging height. The additional 1.75" height when rotated 1/4 turn will be better for fine or finish work. You'll need to take a grinder and sanding disks to shine up the torched edges and do a little radiusing and it'll be an outstanding anvil.

Now you're thinking about rotating it in the stand consider the shapes you can grind in different faces for different jobs. If you're dead set on a hardy hole I'd build a portable hole they have a LOT more utility than the ones in anvils.

If you have the facilities to machine it in a pretty cool bell or is it a whistle would be a dovetail. A dovetail would allow very solid attachment of special bottom tooling a hardy being a super basic one. There have been videos of a knife maker in England I believe who used an anvil with dovetailed tooling.

It wouldn't only have to be bottom tooling like swages but you could make spring dies, guided punches and all kinds of cool tools.

The last thing I'd do is lay it flat and loose that beautiful depth of rebound.

Frosty The Lucky.

machining is pretty much nil other than hand tools or something in a drill press etc.   I have a plasma cutter but not for anything this thick.   MOstly used it to cut plate for various jobs.  

I don't need any more anvils and I have a decent swageblock that I use sometimes.   I am lacking a lot of top tools and ultimately the bottom tools as well other than what I might use on the swage.   Basically I have cultivated a couple friends who "Claim" to be interested in hitting some hot metal and making stuff.   And of course they wanna make axes and bigger stuff!!!     So this is just kind of the first step into the human power hammer forging.   I have done a little bit on my 275# Ridgid anvil but I get a little nervous with that. Plus the height is not optimum on that.

What the heck is a portable hole?   I can probably research that but what comes to mind is the old road runner cartoons with the ACME portable hole....

Tell me more about the "beautiful depth of rebound"?

8 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Yes, my reading comprehension is good enough to recognize that. I curbed my semantic alter ego by NOT pointing out what an anvil is. An anvil is STRUCK. If it isn't struck it is NOT an anvil. "Striking anvil" is a redundant phrase. Should I ask you to explain how you can do any "forging" on an anvil without striking?

Laying a beautiful piece of steel like that on the flat and wasting all that depth of rebound makes a whole lot of sense. Don't you think?

Frosty The Lucky.

I like the beautiful piece of metal comment Frosty.   That is what I thought when I saw it laying in the driveway at my brothers house in Iowa last spring.   I said what are going to do with that?  He said what do YOU wanna do with it?   I said striking anvil.   He said take it.   NOt because he knew what I meant but mostly because I at least had a plan.   I don't think he had any plan.   

So if all anvils are "striking anvils" then I would also guess that all anvils are "forging anvils" so let me clarify.     I wanna build an anvil that various folks can come to my house and use a sledgehammer (10#-12# or so) to swing real hard at without wrecking my stuff.   Realizing that some will be more accurate than others and I don't wanna wreck my 275# anvil that I use for personal striking and forging.

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9 hours ago, clinton said:

My striking anvil

20160321_091453_resized (1).jpg

Clinton.  This anvil looks a little sad and neglected.    Like it needs a good beating?   Wow.   I just realized how politically incorrect someone could take that.  Awesome!   

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A portable hole is a stand with a hardy hole on top. It can be as simple as a piece of square tubing your bottom tools fit into or larger sq or rd pipe with a hardy hole built and welded to the top. There are a few really nice portable holes by guys here. It frees up space on the anvil or gives you a hardy hole without having to hassle making one in a home built anvil. Lastly they make excellent helpers if you build the top of the hole level with your anvil face.

Depth of rebound is how much steel there is directly under the hammer blow, the more the better. A good hands on example is to run a pattern of light hammer blows on an anvil and compare the rebound. The hammer will bounce higher over the center and gradually decrease as you move out the heal and especially down the horn. Rebound is the anvil returning energy as the impact compression wave returns to the point it is struck. I suspect "depth of rebound" isn't the best or maybe even correct term but it's become pretty common. Rebound is caused by an inelastic collision, the shock wave travels at the speed of sound of the material till it is reflected and returns. The hammer is still decelerating on the stock when the rebound wave arrives so the material gets hit on both sides so to speak. The thicker or deeper the steel under the blow the less lateral flex occurs so less energy is wasted bending the anvil so more energy is reflected back.

A person could show the effect with a simple drop experiment. Lay a measured coupon on the anvil or in this case a piece of steel plate and drop a measured weight from a measured height and measure how much the coupon is depressed and spread. Use say a 10lb hammer head from 30" striking a piece of 1/2" rd. aluminum bar 1/2" thick. Do at least 3 test drops in each position. 3 on the flat, 3 on the tall edge and 3 on the short edge. Measure them with calipers or a  mic.

The depth of rebound effect is why so many guys recommend a rail anvil be stood on end, the difference in efficient forging is significant.

Frosty The Lucky.

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17 minutes ago, Borntoolate said:

I wanna build an anvil that various folks can come to my house and use a sledgehammer (10#-12# or so) to swing real hard at without wrecking my stuff.   Realizing that some will be more accurate than others and I don't wanna wreck my 275# anvil that I use for personal striking and forging.

Mount it on it's edge on ;the visitors dress it for you....job done!

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12 hours ago, littleblacksmith said:

dimensions?? how wide is it? thanks!

                                                                                  Littleblacksmith

 

My "Striking anvil" is 9 1/4 inches long by 4 5/8 inches wide and 3 1/2 inches tall. The legs are 2 1/2 by 2 1/2 inches 1/4 inch wall tube steel.

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"Striking anvil" in use. And yes it did take a beating at midnight madness

(Professionals closed course do not attempt)

FullSizeRender.jpg

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6 hours ago, clinton said:

"Striking anvil" in use. And yes it did take a beating at midnight madness

(Professionals closed course do not attempt)

FullSizeRender.jpg

Hey, that's me on the right! Didn't know anyone was taking pictures at Hollister, I would have smiled (was probably grinning anyway)

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8 hours ago, clinton said:

My "Striking anvil" is 9 1/4 inches long by 4 5/8 inches wide and 3 1/2 inches tall. The legs are 2 1/2 by 2 1/2 inches 1/4 inch wall tube steel.

I wasn't terribly far off :) 

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I see a lot of anvils here with three legs. Is that better than a leg on each corner?

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It's a stability thing.  Three contact points won't wobble.  Four legs can if the legs or the surface they are on are not perfect.  If you use 4 legs then typically at least one of them needs to have adjustable length to guarantee a solid platform.

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Michael next time get your hammer up, as soon as you strike raise your hammer. See how I have the hammer raised? You have to get it up to get in rhythm and stay in rhythm. I am probably not the best teacher but I do try at least. Tom Clark was very good at teaching people to strike in a team like this. He was good at lots of other things as well.

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A pic of a "striking" anvil with a portable hole set up would be good.  

Not sure when I'll get back to this.  In refinery turnaround so long days, every day, for a while longer....

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