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On 4/21/2016 at 1:22 PM, Charles R. Stevens said:

Our local State Farm agent won't insure your house unless it has a fresh coat of paint, God forbid you have a dog!

Well now I know why I didn't feel bad when my daughter divorced him.  He did leave me with a tip that has worked for us and friends.  Shop your insurance every 5 yrs to get the best rate.  We did and on 2 farms and vehicles it dropped 50% and it wasn't the above mentioned company because of the local agent. same or better coverage.

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I was informed 3 weeks ago that my currant insurer, Penn National, was dropping me after 8 years. There was never any claims on policy, premiums were alway paid on time.

Not sure if the problem was with local agent or company, but communications have been very difficult.

After filling out forms for ABANA referral, never had any response.

Did get a proposal from a Nationwide company, Scottsdale Insurance Company.

Got and accepted proposal from independent agent written with The Travelers company.

Thought this info might be helpful to someone.  

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Yes......for a company that has adverts with ABANA the insurance company The Hartford never did reply to my attempts at communication either. I have heard this from others as well. Not he phone they were pleasant, but never moved forward on the policy in writing.

 

Ric

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I too tried this- Industrial Coverage Corp? Phone calls ,emails, paper mailed app form, online app form, no reply at all. Don't know what could be going on there. It became obvious that if a certificate of insurance to get into a show or god forbid a claim needed? If they won't even sell it then after the sale does not look good.

Talked with the owner of a local Erie agency that took the time to hear story- pictures of work were needed, a few lengthy phone calls to clarify what it is you do, trouble is it is not a clean fit into a normal category. Artist, sculptor, ornamental iron was able to fit apparently but it took some time to figure out.

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get insured, get a good liability, give them a safety sheet when they sign up, provide a short safety orientation the day of the class. then kiss your butt goodbye and pray everyone ends the class with no injuries. I also ask for an emergency contact and also if they have any thing a paramedic should know if they cant speak for themselves. 

 

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Hace a lawyer draft your liability release and definitely make sure you get an insurance policy but it has to be specific for Education which means that you teach and demonstrate. One more line of defense is to set yourself up as an LLC and then lease all of your equipment to the LLC from you personally so that way if they sue your LLC they won't get your equipment and all your family belongings and stuff for can't be gone after

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So I have had a couple of buds ask if they can come over and swing a hammer. Should I have them sign some sort of liability waiver and take them through a training session before they pick up a hammer?

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my solution to that problem is fairly simple.  I make sure they understand that if they later cause me troubles, I'll just ....... ummm, nevermind

 

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Give some workshops/hammer In’s this weekend. This is what the students come up with. Ask for nothing and told them I want to use them as 'Guinee pigs' to work out a didactic lesson module. I’m still sure I never get rich with it, but it’s very pleasant to see them leaf very happy and enjoy as well. Will keep it like this to avoid any leagal trouble. As a private person have some fun with friends.

DSC00413.JPG

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Just a comment about the advisability of forming an Limited Liability Company (LLC) or a closely held corporation:  In the US the advantages and disadvantages as well as cost and difficulty will vary from state to state.  So, talk to a local attorney who has experience in business organizations.  Not all lawyers have the right expertise.  Also, the State Secretary of State's Office which is the office which usually handles business organizations and registrations may have good information on its website. 

Remember, what you are doing is creating a new legal person/organization to take the liability from a natural person (you).  If you do this you will need to keep the two entities separate, including financially.  So, if you sell something the check needs to be to X, LLC or X, Inc., NOT to you personally.  You can, of course, later write a check from the LLC or Corporation to yourself for the amount of the sale. If you buy something and pay for it out of your pocket you need to have the LLC or Corporation reimburse you so that the item becomes the property of and an asset of the LLC or Corporation.   It is more of a hassle but that is part of the cost you pay for liability insulation.  The downside of not doing this is that if you are sued the Plaintiff can claim that the LLC or Corporation is just a sham and you are really just a sole proprietor with personal liability.  The legal phrase for this is "piercing the corporate veil."

So, talk to an attorney in your home state who has business organization expertise and understand the benefits and problems of the various sorts of options available to you.

George N.M.

Colorado Attorney Reg. #16972

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So forming a corporate entity is a big part of this legal protection? I have run circles with insurance companies and never gotten anywhere.

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Dear Jason,

The basic concept is that when you form a corporation, a limited liability company, etc. you have created a new legal entity to replace the natural legal entity, you.  The legal entity is the owner of the business and has the liability and even if you own the legal entity it stands between you and whoever wants to sue for whatever grievance.  It may be easier for an insurance company to get their little heads around insuring the XYZ, Inc. metal fabricating company than John Smith, Blacksmith.  As I have said before, the trick to this being effective is to keep your personal finances and the company finances separate.  This is where a Certified Public Accountant earns their pay.  Listen to him or her.

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One last thing:  The decision to form a legal entity or pay the premiums for insurance turn on a risk/benefit ratio.  You have to decide how much risk you potentially have, how much risk you are willing to tolerate, and how much money and hassle are you willing to pay to reduce that risk.  Basically, you have to decide "For what could someone sue me?" and "How much could I lose if someone sued me successfully?"  If you are a hobby smith selling a few hundred dollars per year of bottle openers and do dads at craft fairs you probably have very little risk.  If you have a large shop with employees and are selling thousands of dollars per year of architechtural ironwork which could injure someone if it failed you probably want as much liability protection because you have larger potential liability and more to lose.

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