dfsrusa Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 So when I was at my local welder getting a bar welded on a monkey wrench to make a twisting wrench, after explaining to the elderly owner what I was planning on doing with it he asked if I was interested in any other blacksmithing items. Turns out he had a falling apart forge and a big steel box of rusting items, unfortunately no anvil or swage, but I did get a few nice tongs in sizes I didn't have yet, several hardie tools, and some top fullers, albeit without handles. My question is about the top fullers. The eye for the handle is quite small, about the size of a handle you might see with an 8 oz ball-peen hammer, while the heads of the fullers are a good size, about 14 - 18 oz. It just seems out of proportion to me. Should they have fairly small handles? Also, what is the typical method to use them? Does one use them as a hammer and hope for really accurate blows, or does one place the fuller exactly where one wants it on the work, and then hit the back of the fuller with a striking hammer? The second way seems to me to ensure more accuracy and make the small size if the fuller handle not so much of an issue. Thanks for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 The later, you should be able to find some online videos of such fullers in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Second way! the handle is nothing but a way to hold it in position while you hit it with the proverbial bigger hammer. Another way to handle them is with 1/4" rod. Take a 3' section and bend it in two; heat and slide the ends through the eye and back around and wrap them around the rods making the handle. I like to put a twist of two in the handle and leave the holding in spaced a bit out making a better grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Not to forget that top fullers can be made in varying shapes. An example would be a farrier's creasing fuller for applying the horseshoe nail crease. it is held and rocked along like an old p38 can opener. If it were swung, you'd ruin the shoe because of inaccuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Most folks these days have no idea what a p38 is Frank, they give troops food in bags, don't even need a knife to open them... or fire to heat them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfsrusa Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thanks everyone. I do happen to know what a p38 is, not from personal experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 You can even hold a top tool with tongs though a set handle is the better option. What did you get for bottom tools? These specialty dies come in two types, "Top" which are set on Top of the work and struck, also known as "Struck" tools and probably more. More people will know what you're talking about if you call them Top or Struck tools though. The other type is "Bottom" tools far too often called "Hardy" tools. There is only one "Hardy" and it's a hot or cold chisel on a shank that that fits the hardy hole. Yeah, that's a bit semantic anal I know but they are the only tool properly called "Hardy." There are a number of hardies but they're all Bottom chisels. Sorry guys I must be in a more than usual talky mood this morning. I just answered a simple question with a couple page reply. I'll try to shut the teacher in my off now. We LOVE pics, show us pics of your haul! Thank you for your patience. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 3 things known as a P38; all will open a can, one will also fly! The other can't fly; but can fire bullets...(Hmm I can almost picture the Venn diagram...). Keeping the jargon straight makes it a lot easier to be working full out and ask for a hardy and get the *RIGHT* tool! Now as my big anvil has a hardy hole at either end I can ask for right hand hardies and left hand hardies---and as I keep one of them sleeved down from 1.5" to 1" it does make a difference---in *my* shop. Of course not a lot of helpers in my shop generally--- Cue variation on a goon show song "I talk to my tools, that's why they put me away..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfsrusa Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 For Frosty, who wanted to see pics of my haul. Also got these two tongs. Larger one is marked ATHA MADE IN USA. Last thing is this thing. I'm guessing it is a shaper. Should I just put it in a leg vice tight when I want to shape something on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Pretty nice haul. The bottom tools will probably be the most useful, especially the hot hardy and mandrel cone. The fuller is more useful than the swages. Of the top tools you'll use the flatter more than the rest put together. Tongs are good, the more the better and those look like useful shapes to start with. Of course all that opining is just that, you're mileage may vary. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 That last one is for body work on cars---a sheet metal dolly. Of course you can use it anyway you want to around the forge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odblacksmith Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Thats a great haul! only forging tools I have found out here on the west coast were my anvil and one broad top fuller...and one pair of scrolling tongs in a "antique" shop that they wanted $25 for! Wish i was back in the Mid-west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well I had a friend in Columbus Ohio offered a set of "farm" tongs for $90 once...The antique dealer had a price book where a set of tongs that was made by Henry Ford (IIRC) with provenance! was listed as being $180 so a random set of junk tongs should surely be worth half that. He offered to sell her as many more as she wanted for $45 so she could make a fortune---$5 was the going rate then/there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Dfsrusa, make the old boy something nice, he set you up with some good tools. The small cone is really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The last tool looks like what some friends of mine use as a clinching iron when they make tools. One person holds it on the under (inside of the canoe) while the other drives the tack down it hits the iron and clinches over. I made them some custom ones and just mailed them a couple days ago. WOOOOWWWWWW is it spendy sending things to Canada for a few pounds of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 we have a few car body sheet metal tools here I just weld /Tig a hardie end 1"x1" sq on them & use there shape to from stuff off of some I welded 2 hardie ends on them so I can stand it up or lay it down as needed on the anvil THAT'S thinking Outa the box !!! I never have seen anyone else do that it gives you two tools for the price of one PS -- All my hardie tools are 1" & fit my 4 anvils I have so NO making the same hardie tool to fit the other anvil ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 It's nice to have a knife for the outer MRE bag, and you can still get church keys sometimes with the plastic silverware they use for hot meals in the field. Not much use for a "John Wayne" and a pack of Luckies, but oh what you can't do with an MRE heater...(and Tabasco. Well, anything but make the discontinued cheese omelette edible.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Disappeared reply and won't accept a cut and paste. I'll be back later if I remember what I was saying. Well, maybe if the edit works. I'm a real proponent of welding a shank to bottom tools rather than forging them. There are several benefits: If you weld the sank to one end rather than the bottom you don't need to scarf heavily or clean up the welds where they'll contact the anvil face. Another is being able to place the bottom tool over the center of the anvil rather than hanging on the heal. Lastly is a little thought for you. If you weld the shank at a little angle so it'll jam in the hardy hole like a hold fast your bottom tool won't move in use no bounce, jitter, rattle, etc. Just make the shank long enough to tap it free from underneath! Fingers crossed, Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Your question was answered as far as it being a struck tool, other than the flatter it looks like your top tools are actually swedges. Hopefully they match the bottom swedges, even if not I would far rather get for cheap top swedges than bottom ones or fullers as they are more difficult to make, at least with my limited tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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