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Shop Redesign 220 Wiring


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I am nearly complete with small shop setup. My last major hurdle is getting 220 hooked up. I currently got a small fuse box with couple 30amps that comes from the house(shop is a detached building) main breaker. So wondering and asking the electricianally-inclined here, what would be best way to get 220 to building?  get seperate meter from house? Run new wire from house?and maybe ballpark guesstimate of what it could cost? My building is 40ft. from house, both 50 years old and in city. Thanks, in advance, for any advice you may have for me.

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Not sure how you'd define electricianally-inclined but when I read the post I had to check to see if I hadn't written it and forgotten because it's almost exactly what I'm doing.  The answer I got when I asked the same question was that it depends on how many amps you're planning on drawing/what equipment you'll be running.  I'm planning on adding a heat treat oven, and occasional welder use so was told I could run an adequately sized line in a trench I dug and put a 50amp 220V breaker on the main panel in my house and I'd be OK.  I'd be curious to if others have other opinions. BTW,  I live by myself and heat with wood so there will be no other real loads on the main panel when I'm in the shop..

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I would first investigate the type of service panel, and type of breakers you have. Some of the older panels are patently unsafe.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

The first is a type that has been condemned as the breakers were known not to trip, while the second is a modern "double D" type box 

basic house wiring isn't exactly rocket science but if you don't do your research and do so correctly and to code it can be costly and dangerous.  

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Greetings Jacob,

Lots of factors involved .. With the house being 50 years old I would suggest that you have it looked at by a certified electrician.. You said that you have 2 circuits to the building now.. breaker or fuse?  Most of the cost of a new circuit is the underground work which you can do yourself with a post hole digger.. When in doubt go with the PRO.. Just this ol boys 2c

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

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Find a licensed electrician willing to work with you then. Often a "side job" where they get to provide "expert supervision" and make the important/tricky connections is a welcome change. Certainly avoids the potential for fire and electrocution at worst, and letting the smoke out of your shop tools at best

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Jacob, I concur with the others 110% who have recommended getting a licensed electrician to do the electrical work.  You can dig the trenches, cut holes in the walls, anything else non-electric, but leave the wiring to the pros.

I just had 220 wiring run to my shop, about 120 feet run.  I had previously installed my breaker box (I have some experience in wiring, so I knew what I needed) and receptacles.  I had PVC conduit on hand, cement, etc. to do the job.  All that saved a little on labor and material.  I used a licensed electrician to do the wiring, install correct breakers, connect to my main panel, testing and anything else electrical that was needed.  With that done, I slept well at night and knew that any damage would be covered by insurance should a problem occur.

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When my Dad did the wiring for our hobby shop he, and a friend did all of it except the final connection. That was done by an electrician we knew, and he did the final inspection before hooking it up. We ran from the house to the shop underground, and set it up for a 100 amp main. I had welders, and machine tools to run, so we had to make sure we had enough juice. 

Like air compressors, run more than you think you need now since it doesn't add that much more to the cost. You may need more in the future, and swapping city out for bigger conductors, breakers, etc will cost a chunk.

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I ran both sides of a 220 from the house to the shop using direct bury cable, the same stuff used by the electric company uses to feed your house.  They were each fed from 60 amp breakers.  Once at the shop they were run into its own box with 6 breaker slots. The 220 circuit uses a pair of 30 amp breakers and #10 wire.  Each of the other circuits uses 20 amp breakers and 12 gauge wire.  The only thing the inspector wanted was ground fault out outlets as the very first one in the circuit.

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I really hope you do get a real electrician, because no one actually has a 220 volt system in the usa. that is not a standard voltage.  If that has you confused you are in real trouble doing the calculations for breaker box size. there are many valid reasons why we have a 4 to 5 year apprenticeship program for getting licensed as an Electrician.

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I octuple the call for a real electrician on this one.  It's a little too big a bite for the average home-brew job.  Lots of fiddly code compliance issues from end to end and nothing already in place which gives a good start point.

Suggestion, though.  The local home center likely has a "book" (more like a notebook) called "code check electrical".  This is NOT an instruction manual on wiring but a very basic list/explanation of common code issues involved with wiring.  Studying this cover to cover while  you sit on the pot will at least help you understand what the issues are and help you better guide the electrician to the result you want...and understand the choices he makes as well as why he gets paid lots more than the local burger flipper.  

They also have them for plumbing and general construction--all very good learning resources for the background info you need to better manage your own projects.  Give yourself a christmas present.

CCE6thSide.jpg

 

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Thanks for the info guys. I did say I was going with a professional. I was just trying to figure best way. Either from the house or complete new meter at the building.

With all do respect, I did not say I was trying to install a 220 volt system, which i now learn doesn't exist, myself. Of course I'm confused and would certainly have trouble with the calculations, I am not an electrician. That is why I was asking advice of those inclined in that field. Thanks for making me feel like an idiot for my lack of knowledge in that area.

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When I ran power to my shop I pulled my power from the outdoor breaker box at the meter. It had a few extra slots and I took advantage of some time my wife wasn't home and turned off the main supply comin off the meter and attached a double breaker so I could run full mains voltage out to a small 100 amp breaker in my shop. Now I have a way to run a '220/240' welder as well as whatever normal '110/120' appliances I have (lights, radio, fans, etc.).

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On ‎23‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 10:36 AM, Charles R. Stevens said:

Find a licensed electrician willing to work with you then. Often a "side job" where they get to provide "expert supervision" and make the important/tricky connections is a welcome change. Certainly avoids the potential for fire and electrocution at worst, and letting the smoke out of your shop tools at best

 

23 hours ago, arkie said:

Jacob, I concur with the others 110% who have recommended getting a licensed electrician to do the electrical work.  You can dig the trenches, cut holes in the walls, anything else non-electric, but leave the wiring to the pros.

I just had 220 wiring run to my shop, about 120 feet run.  I had previously installed my breaker box (I have some experience in wiring, so I knew what I needed) and receptacles.  I had PVC conduit on hand, cement, etc. to do the job.  All that saved a little on labor and material.  I used a licensed electrician to do the wiring, install correct breakers, connect to my main panel, testing and anything else electrical that was needed.  With that done, I slept well at night and knew that any damage would be covered by insurance should a problem occur.

this is the way I would do it

you will find that most sparky's are more than happy to come out and have a look at what you want to do

make sure you can tell them what you would like to run in your shed and they will let you know your best option

just make sure you let them know that you would like to do the grunt work before you call them out

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Jacob where are you in Lincoln, l will be at m sister in laws tomorrow and part of saterday.  She lives over by 70th and Adams.  

When I ran wire to my shop I had an electrician come and listen to what I wanted to do.  Then I ran the wires and before I turned the power on had him come back and check how I hooked it all up.

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11 hours ago, jacob's hammer said:

I am not an electrician. That is why I was asking advice of those inclined in that field. Thanks for making me feel like an idiot for my lack of knowledge in that area.

I have found one wants to be careful on this site asking for advice, wide range of attitudes & "experts" are ever present.  Enjoy your shop ignore the rest.

Have a good Christmas, hope for coal!

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If you do that, then the real x-spurts won't know your askin. Most of us ere on the side of safety/ caution, not knowing your skill set and intelligence. I , not being a licensed electrician would feel comfortable tackeling such a project on my own, but would feel bad if I gave you advice you miss allied at got hurt. Wile some one like Steve who is an electrifying would open him self and IFI up to liability isues 

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Hi Jacob,  if you do have to run new wires you may want to consider running them in conduit instead of direct bury.  Since you would already have the trench open, for just a little money you could place two conduits.  Use the first for your high voltage and use the second for any future low voltage wants; ethernet, intercom, alarm systems, fiber optic, etc. (You never want to place a low voltage wire along with high voltage).  I built a detached garage 100 feet from my house and wanted electric and water.  Since I had to go below frost line I placed a two inch conduit for the high voltage wires and 4 inch pvc pipe for my plastic black water pipe, plus still plenty of room for anything else I may need in the future. Also, if anything goes wrong in the future It's a lot easier to just pull and find the problem than to dig.  Just a thought.   

 

 

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On 12/24/2015 at 11:43 AM, jacob's hammer said:

Thanks to all who gave good advice. It is appreciated. I got all info I was looking for in this thread.

From now on I will just seek out help from those that offer knowledge without ego/attitude via pms and stay off the main boards.

If my comments about being safe have you that upset you better give up smithing, you may get hurt worse.  You are the one that started with asking faceless names in the internet rather than an electrician for information,  stop worrying about your ego getting hurt, no one is expected to know everything, so far yours is the only bad attitude here so far.

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Please understand:   I bought my first house from a widow with two young kids whose husband, a trained maintenance guy working in a phone central office, accidentally electricuted himself working under the kitchen sink---water, a drop light, metal cabinets...His shop was beautifully wired for 110 and 220 though.  Even knowlegeable folks can make a goof; we want to stick around long enough to become a curmudgeon yourself.  Also realize that any post here is not just for you but for the WORLD---otherwise it would have been IM or email---so some of the comments may not apply for you; but for "Dino Brain DoItYourselfer"  (who modified the wiring in my second house in ways that kept me up at night worrying---including leaving a wire sticking out of the wall onto the floor with two bare ends and LIVE!).  Ignore what doesn't pertain to you and profit from what might!  (and as previously mentioned, "extra" is often just right!)

Please understand:   I bought my first house from a widow with two young kids whose husband, a trained maintenance guy working in a phone central office, accidentally electricuted himself working under the kitchen sink---water, a drop light, metal cabinets...His shop was beautifully wired for 110 and 220 though.  Even knowlegeable folks can make a goof; we want to stick around long enough to become a curmudgeon yourself.  Also realize that any post here is not just for you but for the WORLD---otherwise it would have been IM or email---so some of the comments may not apply for you; but for "Dino Brain DoItYourselfer"  (who modified the wiring in my second house in ways that kept me up at night worrying---including leaving a wire sticking out of the wall onto the floor with two bare ends and LIVE!).  Ignore what doesn't pertain to you and profit from what might!  (and as previously mentioned, "extra" is often just right!)

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I just did this, $15 for the circuit breaker (busy beaver), around $90 for 8g 2wire wire (lowes), $10 for a welder outlet (lowes), $6 for pvc conduit(lowes) (to run underground between the house and garage), $30 Field And Stream gift card (I got as a thank you last year) for an EE buddy who terminated the ends for me.

I estimated (intentionally over a bit) for a 100 foot run.. ran the wire myself and just called my buddy to do the electrical box and outlet. It looked pretty easy but I really didn't want to burn down my house.

One problem I ran into, the manager at the local electrical supply shop advised me to use 8 gauge wire for 40A and that long of a run. When my buddy checked his wiring guides, that gauge was smaller than specifications for that amperage and gauge due to heat.... so we used a 30A circuit. It should still be more than enough for the welder I have but my intention was to wire it in event I wanted to get something bigger one day. A guy at church had said he ran a 220 line using 10 gauge an even longer distance, which is even smaller... definitely seek out a friendly professional.  Better a slice of humble pie than to be on the morning news... I always say.

 

  

 

 

 

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