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porter three eighth inch burner


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Existing tin cans make nice cheap furnace shells, with built in bottoms, which makes them pretty irresistible for first time builders of small furnaces. When someone mentions making a shell from light sheet metal and pop riveting it together for more convenient diameters, most of us just shrug off the suggestion: I certainly did. /But recently I've stumbled across double wall chimney inserts that are filled with...you guessed it; ceramic fiber. Naturally they are too expensive to tempt us, but they got me to thinking...

two different diameters of sheet metal pop riveted together could be filled with Perlite that is glued together with either rigidizer or sodium silicate, making a highly insulating and quite rigid furnace shell for a minor monetary output. And since such cylinders can be made larger diameter than the usual shell sources, they could also contain an extra layer of insulation and still have plenty of room left inside for hot-face and insulation layers.

Of course the builder doesn't need to use a tubular shape; this kind of shell would also lend itself nicely to oval body forges...

 

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These two burners are part of the Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns book update, so you guys don't have to buy the updated version to stay current, let alone wait for it to hit the book shelves. These are notes; not the finished chapters, so photos and drawings are yet to be posted, but you can corner the author and demand clarifications.

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6 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

These two burners are part of the Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns book update, so you guys don't have to buy the updated version to stay current, let alone wait for it to hit the book shelves. These are notes; not the finished chapters, so photos and drawings are yet to be posted, but you can corner the author and demand clarifications.

Well, rest assured, once it's in print, I'll have a copy on my reference shelf.

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Since I'm ignorant of how to start a new thread going on IFI, the next subject can start here:

So, once you build one of these burners (or any other burner) you'll want to install it in a forge or furnace, which brings us to burner ports. Some people just drill a hole in the steel shell and form a hole in the refractory, but this doesn't provide support for the burner or any way to fine tune its aim within the equipment, so others attach a short length of pipe or heavy wall tube and use six thumb screws, in two rows of three screws each, to trap and aim the burner.

So much for the obvious. Now let's discuss control of secondary air, and cooling of the burner. Even single combustion wave burners can benefit from external cooling air, if the burners penetrate extra thick refractory and insulating layers (more than 2") or are vary small 1/4" or less, because internal cooling from the cold incoming propane could be overcome during very long heats, under these conditions.

Most burners have at least primary and secondary flame envelopes, and builders deliberately leave their burner ports unsealed, because secondary air induction (now powered by the flame) is needed for complete combustion. Unfortunately, this nearly always leads to an overabundance of a good thing, because the flame becomes an even more powerful induction "motor" than a burner's gas jet makes. It takes energy to heat air, so extra secondary air becomes a drag on performance within the equipment; typically a 20% heat reduction (got your attention now, don't I). Fortunately, we don't have an if/or choice to make. It is just as easy to control incoming air through the burner port as incoming air through the burner.

First, add another choke near the end of the burner port's tube; you can even make this one, a revolving choke, since turbulence here has no effect on the flame. Next, mount a washer brazed to a ring with thumb screw on the burner; once the burner is installed, it can be slid up against the pipe's end to seal the port.  Is this more work? Obviously; should you expend the additional effort? Also obviously.

But what about single combustion wave burners? Better to have a way to cool down the burner when needed, than to depend on luck. If your burner suddenly starts back firing you won't care about temporarily losing some furnace efficiency, so use the same burner port changes for them too.

Also if a Mikey burner isn't perfectly made, and perfectly tuned, you will need a very little bit of secondary air for complete comustion in a forge or casting furnace; better to have it than risk even trace amounts of carbon monoxide in your shop.

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Yes,  trace amounts of CO is a big deal. It may take a lot of CO exposure to kill a human, but continuing exposure to even minor CO sources causes poor health. What CO does when inhaled is to enter red blood cells, replacing the oxygen they would normally absorb from the lungs. Unlike Co2, carbon monoxide cannot be expelled from red blood cells afterward, in the natural breathing cycle of oxygen in and carbon dioxide out. Carbon monoxide stays in the cell until that cell dies and is replaced up to three months later. So, long term exposure to very small amounts of CO can be pretty devastating to your health.

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Using the refractory as the final nozzle extension eliminates burner overheating and secondary induction. The pic of my shop forge shows how they're mounted, the rectangular plates are welded to the thread protector mock flares I use. I also dip the flares in kaolin/zirconium flour slip as a little protection, it fills the threads nicely and stays.

CO will leave the hemoglobin but it takes a long time and a heavy over abunance of O2, hence hypobaric chamber therapy for CO exposure.

Agreed on the main point though don't breath it if you can help it.

Frosty The Lucky.

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After 45 years of exposure to welding/burning fumes and silca dust from grinding and friction sawing, I AM the canary in the mine shaft."

So, my advice to newbies is on the paranoid side :P Follow every safety rule, and you probably won't get hurt. Think through every move, and what might go wrong, before you pick up a tool. Avoid breathing anything other than clean air into you lungs. Wash hands and face before eating, and don't eat in your work area. Have nothing to do with asbestos. And did I mention, have nothing to do with asbestos?

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  • 1 year later...

I am so glad I found this thread. I was starting the Burners 101 thread from the beginning again looking for the ideal orifice size for a 1/2" Mikey Burner since the MIG tips don't run small enough. Very early in that thread this one was referenced so I went looking. (I never actually got to my answer because I went on a search for this one).

Commenting just to bump it in case anyone else missed it that would be interested.

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I should never have made that comment; it is true, but misleading. Have I mentioned enough times about being "a notorious picky butt"? To me a flame is either perfect or its something less. In reality a flame is good enough to serve well in your forge, or the burner maybe needs a little help. A normal human being would probably never notice the difference between the flame from a 1/2" burner, with an .023" MIG tip (.031" orifice) and the same burner with a MIG tip fitted with a capillary tube inside, which has a .028" orifice. Doing all that extra work can only make a hopeless geek happy.

No, no! Don't listen to that slob! I, Dr. Frankenburner say you must do my burners just right!

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Mikey,

Hi, Mikey long time no see. I have been following this thread with great interest.

When I go To McMaster Carr Web Site and plug in 75165A125 it shows the following. 

It shows that it has a plastic base.  Is this correct?

 

 

0.019" 0.028" Blunt 304 Stainless Steel Polypropylene Plastic

Black

 

75165A125

 

 

Larry Zoeller

www.zoellerforge.com

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You are quite right, Larry.

the first problem is that McMcMaster Carr adjusts their numbering system as their inventory changes.  I had to adjust the number of the right part once already, while I was righting up the information. Although that post is only two years old,it is out of date again; so this is two changes in three years. I expect that their numbers will change still more over time.

But the bigger problem is that I have given up on building burners with these parts at all; they have two many problems. I only recommend mounting capillary tubes, or hypodermic tubes in MIG tips nowadays. this came about in discussions of how to build canister-mount 3/8" burners, which replaced this older design. But now that the original 3/8" burners are being discussed again, I supposed it will be necessary to write an updated version.

I'm glad you showed up, and hope you can find the time to contribute on a regular basis.

Something came up in one of the other threads, which could be of interest to you, and through you, to the blacksmiths community. There is a guy posting photos of very hot flames, from pretty mediocre burners. What I see that is different about them is their flared flame nozzles; he uses a lot more taper than what is generally recommended. If you take the time to investigate the phenomenon, It might lead to something good...after all, isn't this kind of thing where most progress comes from?

 

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Making miniature gas jets from capillary tube & MIG contact tips, etc.

For building a gas jet from fine tubing (capillary or hypodermic) and a MIG contact tip, I recommend using a Tweco, Miller, Lincoln, or Radnor 1-1/2” long tip (excluding their threaded portion, which is 1/4-27). If you can get a tapered tip, that’s good; otherwise you will have to spin it in a drill under a file, to taper it yourself.
    Just because there is a welding supply store in your town doesn’t mean that they will have the MIG tips you need in stock, or that they will bother to sell you one or two of them, even if they do. Your sale is hardly worth their paperwork. You can buy MIG tips on line as few as five or ten at a time for less money than they will cost at your local welding supply store, and chances are that the shipping charge won’t amount to more than the gas and time you may waste receiving a rotten experience, while trying to buy them locally: Radnor and Tweco Model 14T-052 MIG contact tips are available from amazon.com, or eBay.

    Stainless steel heavy wall capillary tubes are found in outside diameters of about 1/16”; that can vary from .060” to .065” diameters depending on the manufacturer, and MIG contact tips can vary by up to .003” in the diameters of their orifices; so, you may end up with an interference fit that requires little effort to mount Or you may need to swage the MIG tip down around the capillary tube, silver braze the tube into the MIG tip, or you could even need to drill the MIG tip hole a little larger.  Because stainless steel capillary tube comes in vary limited inside diameters, and you may elect to employ EDM tube.

    Miniature burners (3/8” size and smaller) bring up for the first time, an instance where friction of the moving gas molecules down these tiny orifices become a major design factor. In larger burners the smaller the gas orifice diameter the hotter a given size of burner tends to burn, in even the longest available MIG contact tip. Now, do to friction we find a 1/2” long capillary tube (within such a tip) if .020” inside diameter will make a hotter output flame than 1/2” long tube with this diameter. It becomes necessary to adjust the capillary tube’s length, to overcome the lack of orifice choice sizes. In the case of a 3/8” size burner, you can only choose heavy wall stainless steel capillary tubes with .020” orifice diameters, and then cut and sand it down to a finish length in the MIG tip of .406” (13/32”) long, to gain the best result from this part.

    Torch tip cleaners are made from a harder stainless steel alloy than capillary tube, but it isn’t so much harder that they can be successfully used to bore orifice sizes larger, but they are perfect for using them to get rid of internal burrs, so that the holes where the fuel gas inters and exits the tube can be made round; use a magnifying glass to assure this result.

    Heavy wall brass or even copper capillary tubing, normally employed as electronic discharge machining (EDM) tubes, can also be used as gas jets. Even thin wall stainless steel hypodermic tubing can be used, so long as both its inside and outside diameters are listed; it is available as dispenser needles, and as 3’ to 5’ lengths. MIG contact tips come in limited orifice diameters, as do capillary, hypodermic, and EDM tubing. You must begin your search for a convenient tube with the desired orifice size (inside diameter). Next, you try to find a MIG tip with as close a match to its outside diameter as you can. Saturn Industries, Inc. has been a practical source of such tube in the past.    

    If the tip’s diameter is within .005” oversize to the tube, it is easily swaged down to trap heavy wall tube in it; with a tapered MIG tip, you may be able to create an interference fit by squeezing plyers around the thin section of copper. With a plain (not tapered) MIG tip even thin wall tubing can be swaged into the MIG tip, but you have to drill a 1/4” diameter hole in a short piece of 1/2” x 1” mild steel bar. Begin by scribing a line on the 1” face of the bar, somewhere near its center, using a combination square. Then scribe a second line from it, over the 1/2” face. Use the square to find the center of the line on the 1/2” face, scribe a cross mark, and center punch it; drill a 1/4” hole completely through the bar. Use a thin cutoff disc to cut completely through the bar at the first line, and then clean off all burrs.

    Slide the desired length of capillary tube into the MIG tip, and place it within your new swaging die; Tap its top with a hammer. Cut off the excess tube to within a 1/16” beyond the die, and hand sand it back even with the MIG tip’s face. Then clean out any internal burrs, with torch tip cleaners.

If the MIG tip’s orifice is only a little too small for the capillary tube, You can use torch tip cleaners to enlarge it a few thousandths of an inch. You will find one round file in the set to be     small enough to push back and forth within the MIG tip, while turning the tip slowly. Every few moments, you need to check the enlarging hole against the capillary tube, as it gradually increases.

    Wire gauge drill bits can be hand spun in a pin vice to enlarge holes in MIG tips to within a couple of thousandths of an inch of your capillary tube; keeping the hand filing (with torch tip cleaners) from becoming tedious. Only increase the size of thousandths of an inch at a time, when drilling in copper. Don’t depend on your eyes for guidance. Pay close attention to the amount of tension felt in your fingers. Start drilling by barely touching the bottom of the tip’s hole. Stop frequently to clean burrs out of the drill bit, and blow them out of the MIG tip, from the hole’s other end. When you feel a sudden increase in tension on the bit, reverse its direction until the hidden inner burr in the hole is knocked loose, before continuing to drill.

    You must drill as deep as you can into the tip, starting from the threaded end. By the time you must switch ends to complete the hole you should have learned how to drill well enough to mate up both ends. Because you don’t have a miniature drill press and drill vise ($$$), your hole is going to end up oversize at bother ends, which will both taper down smaller as the hole gets deeper. You may be able to push up to a 1-1/2” long length of hypodermic or capillary tube into it with just enough interference to trap it in place with the help of a few light taps. Or, you may have to finish up the hole with some help from torch tip cleaner files.     

    It is important for the outside of MIG contact tips in most burner sizes to be tapered for proper flow of the air, as it passes by the gas jet on its way from air intakes into the mixing tube, or into the mixing area in tube burners. How important? How small is you burner? The smaller the burner the more important it becomes.

    MIG contact tips come in several orifice sizes, as do hypodermic needles. Just as heavy wall capillary tube can be made to serve as proper gas jets in small burners by varying short lengths to match output velocities of different gas orifice diameters to different mixing tube diameters, so can capillary and hypodermic tube serve the same purpose by varying longer lengths of larger diameters to overcome tolerance changes in those orifices. Also, the longer lengths can be more easily interference-fit in place or bent in a bow to keep them in place, without need for silver brazing. Lengths and diameters will remain a matter of trial an error, because of tolerances; plus or minus .001" of an inch is a lot of difference when the orifice is .023" or less.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

    Remember, the mounted capillary tube must be closely inspected under a lighted magnifying glass to make sure all burrs are completely eliminated from the tube’s orifice; it needs to be completely round; not jagged; otherwise the gas stream won’t be smooth: https://www.amazon.com/Magnifier-Marrywindix-Handheld-Reading-Magnifying/dp/B0140WO6KS/ref=ice_ac_b_dpb?ie=UTF8&qid=1490393108&sr=8-3&keywords=magnifying+glass+with+light

 

Tapered watchmakers reamers are called pivot broaches; they are another tool for enlarging deep micro holes in copper, and brass; tapered micro reamers: http://www.micromark.com/mini-hand-tools/reamers

 

Others are available from: http://www.esslinger.com/five-sided-cutting-broaches-avai Watchmaker's Pivot Broacheslable-in-0-013-to-0-227-diameter-stub-15-to-80/  

 

Note: Diamond reamer sets are meant for working on glass beads, and are too crude for reaming drilled gas jets a few thousandths larger. What they are good for is shaping long tapers into MIG tips and capillary tubes behind such holes, to increase gas flow into them. They are a low cost handy tool to keep around for deburring small holes, and working in inside corners, etc.

 

Pivot cutting broaches allow faster hole enlargement then drill bits, and also serve to bridge any gap in bit sizes and needed orifice diameters These broaches are very small, and fragile; they must be mounted in pin vises, just the same as tiny wire gauge drill bits are, and handled with the same kind of delicacy, with the same motions, lest you bend the broach, or snap one off in the hole. Although handling these tiny broaches takes care, they don’t require much work, or time to do the job. You will probably want a lighted magnifying glass and a pair of tweezers, to pick out the right broach from a set of them, for mounting in the pin vise.

    The new orifice will not be parallel, but will end up slightly tapered; probably by less than one thousandths of an inch all around the periphery of the capillary tube. If, you are committed to silver brazing a capillary tube in place, continue reaming, until it will slide into the tip to its desired length; its end will stop against the wall of the tapered MIG tip’s orifice; helping to stop the filler alloy from plugging up the capillary tube.

    If you would rather avoid silver brazing, cut the capillary tube 3/16” over of the desired length. Place the tube in the MIG tip, and screw the tip into place in base of the burner (or within a threaded hole in a block of steel; whatever). Tap the whole assembly against a metal surface, or tap a hammer against the excess tube, until it comes within 1/8” of the MIG tip’s front face (tap it—don’t slam the hammer). Use a circular motion on very fine sandpaper (at least #400 grit; finer is better) to reduce it down even with the tip’s face; use the torch tip cleaners to remove the tube’s internal burr.

 

Rotary tool and micro drill

Electric rotary tools are the answer to overpowered electric die grinders, which are a grim necessity to unlucky professionals, and should be avoided like a potential trip to the emergency ward, by novices. This leaves electric rotary hand tools as the frequently under powered and overpriced alternative. There is a type of micro drill that trades lower RPM for higher torque; this tool is just right for power grinding and sanding on small parts; it can be slid along inside a split pipe, taking the place of a drill press for making acurate micro holes in burner jets. The tool’s low price seems almost to good to be true; it isn’t though;  I bought one last week; its body is a 1.585” diameter aluminum cylinder, that is 3-3/4” long; its speed is 20,000 RPM; the highest recommended speed for a 1-1/2” cut off disk, and still about right for most micro drill bits. Its price is $27; cheap for two essential tools in one: https://www.amazon.com/Yakamoz-0-3mm-Aluminum-Portable-Handheld/dp/B06XGQ24PS/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1499815821&sr=8-23&keywords=micro+drill

  

Silver brazing capillary tubes

Most air/propane torches have gas jets that can be removed, drilled, and silver brazed, in order to mount a capillary tube in place directly within it. While this involves hot work, it is also more tolerant about drill alignment in small burners, as the capillary tube can be easily bent after the jet is replaced in the goose neck, if your hole wasn’t drilled quite parallel to the part’s axis.

 Most old gas jets contain a spongy looking section, which is meant to act as a fuel filter; unfortunately they just end up doing a fine job as a clog maker. Drill completely through the sponge; it has no value. Following this method enables you to re-task nearly any air/propane torch.

 While there are a variety of sources for capillary tube, the easiest way to find any particular orifice size you need, still remains blunt end dispenser needles; all of which are stainless steel. Most easily available heavy wall capillary tube, or thin wall hypodermic tube, is also stainless steel; Stainless requires the use of brazing alloys that contain 50% or higher silver content (the higher the better it wets part surfaces), and flux that is rated for use with stainless steel; most of these are black flux. I recommend Harris white flux for use on stainless thin wall tubing, rather than black flux, which is likely to be too aggressive for thin wall tubing.

 Just before brazing, use fine grit sandpaper to break up surface oxide, and to scratch up the tube’s smooth surface, wherever you want the silver braze alloy to adhere. Equally as important is to keep the flux well away from areas you don’t want the filler alloy to overrun, like the end of the capillary tube.

 

Handy Flux Type B-1 for brazing stainless steel, nickel, tungsten, and super alloy; effective from 1100 to 1700 °F (593°–927°C): https://www.riogrande.com/Product/HandyFluxTypeB1forStainlessSteelandNickelSilver/504088?gclid=Cj0KEQjwnazLBRDxrdGMx-Km4oQBEiQAQJ1q60FC-v7KeRWzi_XJDs7x1OEmdLMsXXpT0DGGUBK93mAaAi9W8P8HAQ

  Rio Grande 65% silver content brazing alloy #3101100, which is excellent and inexpensive; it is especially recommended for small pieces, such as stainless needles and capillary tube: https://www.riogrande.com/Product/silver-wire-solder-20-ga/101100 It is best to  add flux to a length of tube, and push it into the MIG tip, leaving excess tubing protruding from its end; then cut, sand, and deburr the tube to fit, after brazing.

 

Note: the higher silver content (50 % or more), which helps joining alloys to wet stainless steel, nickel, and tungsten, also does a superior job of wetting copper and brass.

 

Brass or copper EDM tubing can also be used to provide the right size gas orifices, by combining them with MIG contact tip holders of other sizes. Various diameters of Drawn brass and copper tubing are available through Saturn Industries: http://www.graphitesupplies.com/Precision-Brass-EDM-Electrode-Tube-1630-OD-x-073-ID-X-16-Long_p_8471.html

 

Heavy wall nickel and stainless steel capillary tubing can be hard to find in desired orifice sizes, but are still available from Small Parts, which is now owned by Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=srs%3D3041233011%26search-alias%3Dspecialty-aps&field-keywords=capillary+tube  

 

If you have the choice, I recommend heavy wall capillary tube (AKA gauge tubes) over thin wall hypodermic tube, if you can find them in the orifice diameters desired (as they are far less inclined to be partially dissolved by flux, should you be a little slow in your braze work). Different companies have various orifice sizes available; one of them well stock tube in .020” inside diameter, and another will stock .023” instead: http://ziggystubesandwires.com/Capillary-Tubing   

 

Various heavy wall stainless steel capillary tubes are also available from: https://microgroup.com/store/fractional-stainless-tubing.html  

 

1/16” O.D. in various inside diameters are available from Sigma Aldrich.com: https://www.labemco.com/capillary-tubing.html

 

1/16” (.0625”) O.D. in various inside diameters are available from Lab Express http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/analytical-chromatography/analytical-products.html?TablePage=19913022
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My favorite way to make a gas jet for a  3/8" gas burner, with a high speed flame, is to insert a 1/64" O.D. by .020" I.D., by 9/16" long stainless steel heavy wall capillary tube in a 14T (for tapered) Tweeco MIG, and to sand the end back somewhere between 1/64" and 1/32" shprter, during final tuning, to dial in its performance.

It has turned out that the turn- down range of 3/8" Mikey burners are long and smooth; therefore a 1/4" burner is kind of gilding the Lilly.

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Linear versus jet ejector mini burners: Jet ejector burners tend to burn hotter than linear burners. Linear burners tend to run smoother than jet ejectors. The smaller the burner the harder it is to build and tune perfectly. The building aspect has to do with the differences between available parts sizes and optimal parts sizes; they grow as the burner shrinks. The increased difficulty in tuning seams to be an aspect of whatever makes smaller burners tend to be hotter burning. I admit not knowing the why of this, but it is easily observed.

The conclusion, for now, seems to be that 1/4" and smaller jet ejector burners are simply more trouble than they are worth; this idea is bolstered by the emergence of saddles as a method for mounting gas assemblies on linear burners; thus, opening up many new choices of practical air entrance devices.

So Larry,

What you think; enough food for thought here? I would love to get you interested in building Oz burners; they are linear burners with gas assemblies mounted on saddles. And even though my new Vortex burners are mighty, saddle mount linear burners are the future :D

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Mikey,

Funny that you mentioned the larger flare.  I started about a year ago making the end of my flares larger than the 12 to 1 ratio that Ron Reil talked of.  He said that the flare should not look like a blunderbuss but it seams to work better.  I saw the PNB burners had this and they worked fine.

 

I am always looking for the latest and greatest burner design to work on.  So give me something to get started on Mikey.

Larry Zoeller

www.zoellerforge.com

[email protected]

 

 

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5 hours ago, Larry Zoeller said:

Mikey,

Funny that you mentioned the larger flare.  I started about a year ago making the end of my flares larger than the 12 to 1 ratio that Ron Reil talked of.  He said that the flare should not look like a blunderbuss but it seams to work better.  I saw the PNB burners had this and they worked fine.

Reil was very early days. The first thing I discovered about flame nozzles, was that their design parameters depend on the speed and power of the burner's gas/air mixture flow. My own stepped flame nozzles worked on  my high speed tube design, and even on a linear burners with a MIG tip gas jet, but were a total flop on linear burners with gas holes drilled into cross pipes.As it was c;ear bacl in the late nineties, what we ththought we know must give way to the observed facts. We all have a lot of trouble learning this lesson, over and over; a couple of decades go by and a dozen young guns are walking all over our cherished   limitations :P :)

We love to see photos; especially flame photos, but burner photos are nice to. If you will put either or both on the Burners 101 thread, and any text you wish to go along with them, you will gain the recognition for your burners, and folks will gain some information about them. This thread will submerge back beneath the cyber waves at the end of a month, and may not appear again for another couple of years.

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Frosty,

Long time since we talked.  I have been following you and Mikey in the threads about forges and burners for awhile.   It seams like there is a lot of new ideas floating around out there right now.  

I would like to hear your and Mikey's thoughts on the new Superwool HT, this is what I am selling now instead of the Cerablanket.  I am getting mixed information about it.  You guys usually have a good idea about what is going on with the refractories.

 

Larry Zoeller

[email protected]

www.zoellerforge.com

Superwool.pdf

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I don't know Larry, from a little brief reading it looks like Superwool HT has a lower working temperature than Cerablanket. I haven't looked at the MSDS though. Looking on the Superwool site they do a lot of talking about shrinkage and not much I understand. Is shrinkage the new limiting factor for refractory blanket? 

It says it's a alumina silicate but I don't see %s so I don't know how likely it is to be more flux resistant. 

I just don't know, I only use Kaowool because I have a good source for free from the scrap bin and it's working temp falls around the upper end for Cerablanket or what I found. 2,400f and it holds up fine in my forges but I've been covering them with hard refractory and kiln wash as a flame face.  

I'll see what I can find out. Do you have any links I can check out?

Frosty The Lucky.

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I looked at their figures, and was impressed. We come to expect giant leaps forward; unfortunately, in ceramic blanket, those come at high prices and low availability. There is such a thing as 3000 F use rated blanket on the market, but who can afford it? This product is an affordable step forward. On the one hand, we stuff extra lengths in the blanket to take care of the expected 4% shrinkage in normal use. But shrinkage isn't the point of these figures; it is being used as a gauge of break down of the product, as the amorphous silicate portion of the fiber breaks down, do to crystal formation. So, what is really being plotted is product's life expectancy, when the forge is kept at welding temperatures. Thus that small improvement is an important one.

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