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Prokopto

Champion Whirlwind 712

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Does anyone have or have information on a Champion Whirlwind 712 forge pot? I recently acquired one that is missing the clinker breaker but is in otherwise great shape. I would like to know a few things... of what material should the clinker breaker be made so as to sink less heat from my fire and does anyone have a picture of one of these fire pots? (here is a picture of one like mine only with the clinker breaker but I cannot see it well enough to copy its design)

 

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,

Bill

tuyere_1.jpg

tuyere_2 (1).jpg

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The original was cast iron; but if you are greatly concerned about heat loss titanium will be a better choice; probably cost more than my pickup...

There are several places where you can find old catalogs that might have a better engraving of what it should look like.  Also try the US Patent Office.

If the anvilfire store is working then they sell a CD rom of Champion catalog, fliers, patents, etc

 

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7 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

The original was cast iron; but if you are greatly concerned about heat loss titanium will be a better choice; probably cost more than my pickup...

There are several places where you can find old catalogs that might have a better engraving of what it should look like.  Also try the US Patent Office.

If the anvilfire store is working then they sell a CD rom of Champion catalog, fliers, patents, etc

 

Thank you so much Mr. Powers. I will try those suggestions.... ahem... except for the titanium. :-)

 

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okay I found a 2 1/2" x 5" 304 stainless bar to shape into the clinker breaker. It is my experience that stainless holds up well as a fire pot component. (I have used 1/4" 304 plate for a tuyere cover for years). How much of a heat sink will this clinker breaker be at 2 1/2" x 3 1/2" long?

 

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18 minutes ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

Being a heat sink shouldn't be an issue. That part of the forge should not be getting that hot to begin with.

wow, okay great so a chunk of 1045 or anything will work? Does it need to be solid or do you think a clinker breaker welded up from 1/4" flat bar would be okay?

 

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The virtue of cast iron is that clinker is less likely to stick to it.  I would try a chunk of old cast iron window weight before I went fancy

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Many Metal stores sell cast iron as well as steel,  Window weights come in differing sizes you may need a larger one depending on the size of your tuyere

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2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Many Metal stores sell cast iron as well as steel,  Window weights come in differing sizes you may need a larger one depending on the size of your tuyere

Yes my tuyere will require about 2.5" x 3.5". I have a super powerful champion blower that I've been holding on to for about 4 years. I can't wait to get this thing built and lite it!

 

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6 hours ago, Prokopto said:

okay I found a 2 1/2" x 5" 304 stainless bar to shape into the clinker breaker. It is my experience that stainless holds up well as a fire pot component. (I have used 1/4" 304 plate for a tuyere cover for years). How much of a heat sink will this clinker breaker be at 2 1/2" x 3 1/2" long?

 

Be aware that T304 stainless should not soak in the roughly 600 to 1200 degree F range because the material can degrade by a process known as "green rot"

"Green Rot

A form of high-temperature attack on stainless steels,nickel-chromium alloys and nickel-chromium iron alloys subjected to simultaneois oxidation and carburization. Basically, attack occurs by first precipitating chromium as chromium carbide, then oxidizing the carbide particles."

The material can actually become brittle and flake away/crack.  Whether this will happen in your case, I can't say--it's sort of a hit and miss things.  Often even if it does happen the results are often still better than lesser materials.  Just an FYI

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2 hours ago, Kozzy said:

Be aware that T304 stainless should not soak in the roughly 600 to 1200 degree F range because the material can degrade by a process known as "green rot"

"Green Rot

A form of high-temperature attack on stainless steels,nickel-chromium alloys and nickel-chromium iron alloys subjected to simultaneois oxidation and carburization. Basically, attack occurs by first precipitating chromium as chromium carbide, then oxidizing the carbide particles."

The material can actually become brittle and flake away/crack.  Whether this will happen in your case, I can't say--it's sort of a hit and miss things.  Often even if it does happen the results are often still better than lesser materials.  Just an FYI

thanks. yes, he first tuyere cover I made for my buffco rivet forge was 1/4" stainless and it flaked away after two years and got thin especially where I'd drilled it... this last one has not so indeed it must be hit and miss. The issue with the stainless in the rivet forge is that sometimes I see it glowing red so I know it is sinking heat away from my work. Still I can forge weld in it just fine so it must not matter as much as I think.

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I just took my firepot apart to secure the clinker breaker which was rotating on the handle. The little hex bolt had roinded off where it pressed on handle rod. The breaker, clearly a replacement, is a section of I'm assuming mild bar, hacksawed and ground triangular. Certainly easier to work than stainless.

With the blower going I'd think that whole area of the firepot would be ,...cooler, as cool az its going to be anyway. I saw a couple firepots glowing at a workshop just recently!

Green  Rot!?! The things you learn when smart people are talking!

I'd save the stainless for something else. Find a chunk of anything easy to cut, that will fit the tuyere of your particular forge.

There were a couple of water cooled, sideblast forges at the workshop and Octoberfest. Very neat to work with and a little odd at the same time

 

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My vintage forge has a clinker breaker, built I never could get it to work. My clinkers are like molten gooey glass. I find it easy enough to just rake them out as needed.

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the clinker braker in two of my forges are mild steel.  and have held up just fine.  

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On 12/4/2015, 8:09:49, matto said:

the clinker braker in two of my forges are mild steel.  and have held up just fine.  

sweet I have some mild steel that will work. thanks

 

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Does anyone know if the different components of the fire pot originally had any sort of dope or sealant between all the connections? There is the fire pot, the ring that has the sockets for the clinker breaker, and the tuyere pipe. It all fits quite snugly but I was wondering if those connections were originally sealed with something.

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i sealed mine with stove sealent.  but you don't need anything inless you have a big gap.  some guys use clay or refractory

cement.

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10 hours ago, matto said:

i sealed mine with stove sealent.  but you don't need anything inless you have a big gap.  some guys use clay or refractory

cement.

thanks

 

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