Worshipdrummer

I was given a Peter Wright Anvil but...

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A good friend of mine "gave" me a Peter Wright Anvil (It is 150-170# at least) to work on but there is a problem.  The striking face is broken.  Part of the top, forward of the Hardy and Pritchel has broken away leaving a very uneven surface.  Sort of looks like the state Florida actually.  I have a friend who is a very good welder and he has offered to work on the anvil and try to restore it to a better working condition.  I understand the value both monetary and historical but I would rather have the anvil flat and more useable than original.  What do you guys think?  Let him fix it and use the crap out of it or let it stay original and use the horn when needed?    

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I've seen anvils made as good as new and anvils destroyed by very good welders.  Does he actually know anything about anvils? (if not make sure he reads up about the Robb Gunter method of anvil repair and can do the preheat and use the correct rod and not get spooked by what happens when you weld on real wrought iron.  Generally not much historical value as these things were made by the shipload!  I'd like to see a picture of it before I really say Yea or Nay though.

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I was a little late he has already started working on the Anvil.  Here are some pictures of what he has done so far.  Should I let him weld new steel to even the entire surface or use it in its current condition.  I am leaning toward the latter.

IMG_5350.jpeg

IMG_8469.jpeg

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That is some catastrophic damage. That's not so much repairing an anvil as furnishing a new face. Yet it can be done, if you use the right rods. I just bought some stoody rods like is suggested here to repair mine: http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm

These rods can be expensive in large amounts, and you'd pay an arm and a leg to build up that entire surface. There may be a way to furnish a brand new face that is cheaper since you've got the raw body to work with, maybe someone else has experimented with this?

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There was a suggestion on a post somewhere on here of bolting a new face plate on as to not have to heat treat the whole anvil. My phone is about to die so after it charges I'll try to find it and post the link. 

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Bolting does not work as well as a fully welded face plate. (Right Patrick?), and by fully welded I mean that the entire face is welded to the base and then will require heat treating.  Refacing by building up may end up easier than welding down a narrow slot and getting 100% bond.  

To use an analogy; that anvil is a car missing the engine and transmission; not a simple or cheap thing to repair.  As it is, what's left is very soft real wrought iron; a chunk of fork lift tine would work better as an anvil.

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Don't forget that you do still have the back end of that anvil to work on, it might prove to be more stable than a RR anvil and you even have a hardie hole! You could smooth out the remaining face plate and make items to afford the rods, besides the cost of the rods the welding is relatively straightforward.

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You can also make a saddle that sits over the main body. You only need a surface that is as big as your hammer face. 

Peter Wrights are wrought iron bodies, and they weld very differently than modern steel does. That anvil can go from still being useful to junk pretty quick if it isn't done right. 

Bolting may not work "as well" as a 100% welded repair, but it will be a darn sight better than what he has now. I would say bolt a chunk of a forklift tine to the top, and get going. Later on if a better anvil comes along, or the funds to do a proper repair it can still be done easy enough by unbolting the tine.  

The weight is stamped on the side in widely spaced numbers. Mine is marked 1 0 26 , the first number is times 112#, the second is times 28#, and the last number is straight pounds. So, 1x112 + 0x28+ 26 = 138#

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If available near you take it to a shop that repairs and hard faces rock crushers. the guy in the weld shop won't have to look at it twice to build up and hard face it correctly. Just make sure that s/he uses hard facing rod intended for Steel on ROCK, NOT steel on steel!! Steel on steel hard face is abrasion resistant and not so good for impact loading. Steel on ROCK hard facing is intended to take unholy hammering as routine life. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT!

Whatever you do, don't think you'll get away with repairing that anvil for less than a couple hundred $. I repaired one in much better condition for a fellow two summers ago and he spent $150 just in rod. The guys at the local welding supplier just happened to have an open box of build up rod in the oven and I got the deal of the year on it.

Build up rod till it's less than 2 passes from finished, then no more than 2 passes of hard facing to include enough bead above the face surface to grind it flat. I used a cup stone on my 9" Milwaukee grinder while the face was still HOT. Preheated and post heated to 400f. Tempil stick verified.

Frosty The Lucky.

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With all of todays modern alloys and bonding materials would it be possible to use some sort of brazing rod, get everything super hot and set on a new top plate? I would think some brazing materials would be equally as durable as the wrought iron body.

If this is a stupid question, just call it!

Scott

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Sure, getting the brazing rod is no problem.

Problem #1 - Getting access to a big enough induction furnace, or a pottery kiln to hold an anvil.

Problem #2 - What to do with the finished anvil now that you have softened the face. Because getting it hot enough to braze means that you have softened the face. Getting it hot enough again to quench and temper the face means remelting the brazed joint. Catch 22.

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well if you want to learn how to arc weld ? you have a good project in front of you !!

you really can't hurt that anvil much more then it is !! -- Its fixable to a point 

I fix anvils all the time & have done one like that also -- theres alot of work & time there !

this is what I would do

first torch cut or grind off the piece that sticks out & make it sq & 90 degs that way all welds are the same leanth when welded

you NEED to read Rod G anvil repair !!!!  --- Build up base rod  110-18 is my choice for this ---  7018 will do also

pre heat to 350 or so that much welding will keep it hot -- build up until you're about 3/16 from top & flat

grind high spots as needed

use stoody 1105 rod as top build up rod & yes you can do more that 2 pass with it !

an air scale needler makes it easy to descale welds & peens the welds @ the same time --- chipping hammer AT LEAST

to do above --- by the time you finish welding you're welds will look much better !! that's a good practice piece 

to learn with would be nice if you you welder friend there to give pointers then its just time bead after bead you get the Idea LOL **  when done wrap with leathers or pink insulation or something that keep heat in over night

then theres the grinding :o

Steve's Welding & fab

 

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14 hours ago, John McPherson said:

Sure, getting the brazing rod is no problem.

Problem #1 - Getting access to a big enough induction furnace, or a pottery kiln to hold an anvil.

Problem #2 - What to do with the finished anvil now that you have softened the face. Because getting it hot enough to braze means that you have softened the face. Getting it hot enough again to quench and temper the face means remelting the brazed joint. Catch 22.

I could be wrong not knowing the alloy of the face plate but I believe brazing temp is above critical so all it'd require is letting it cool to reasonable hardening temp and quench.

The real BAD aspect of this is quenching on a falling temp, leaving that mass of iron and steel brazing hot and letting it cool to critical is likely to cause significant grain growth.

Frosty The Lucky.

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4 hours ago, IronWolf said:

you DON'T braze anvils --- what NO !!!

You have empirical evidence?

Frosty The Lucky.

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I really appreciate all of the advice on fixing the anvil.  My friend worked on it and it has a pretty decent hard flat section now that I can do some light work on so I am going to leave it as is and put my money into a "new" old anvil in the spring.  I hammered down on it this weekend drawing out a piece of school bus leaf spring and it held up well, no dents or new damage.  It does seem to ring more now than it previously did but I know how to dampen that well enough.  Again, thanks.

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1 hour ago, Worshipdrummer said:

I really appreciate all of the advice on fixing the anvil.  My friend worked on it and it has a pretty decent hard flat section now that I can do some light work on so I am going to leave it as is and put my money into a "new" old anvil in the spring.  I hammered down on it this weekend drawing out a piece of school bus leaf spring and it held up well, no dents or new damage.  It does seem to ring more now than it previously did but I know how to dampen that well enough.  Again, thanks.

Picture?

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Le me be even more politically incorrect :D Why not solder a piece of fork lift tine (or other steel) onto it. One would not need to worry about tempering. If the solder is a solid but thin sheet between the steel and the Iron it would probably transmit the force from the steel to the iron.   

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2015‎ ‎11‎:‎49‎:‎23‎, gote said:

Le me be even more politically incorrect :D Why not solder a piece of fork lift tine (or other steel) onto it. One would not need to worry about tempering. If the solder is a solid but thin sheet between the steel and the Iron it would probably transmit the force from the steel to the iron.   

Maybe we have a different definition of the word "solder".  Here it means melting soft lead wire to make electrical connections.  I have a piece of hardened tool steel I could use, describe what you mean please Gote.

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I was unable to post the whole message so I have sent it separately as mail.

 

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