Frosty Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 11 hours ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmih.co said: Try Kast-0-Lite. It is a light weight, insolating castable refractory. Check out the attachments at the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com. Let me know if I can help you. Is Kasto-lite an alumina refractory? I experimented with a few insulating castables but they were pretty susceptible to flux damage being mostly silica oxide clays. Heck this is one reason I started messing with kiln washes I was hoping a good insulating castable would be more durable than Kaowool but it was only just a little bit Tougher. I'd try "bubble alumina" refractory but it's pretty spendy stuff. The product I used for the new forge is Green Cast 94. It's hydraulically bonded so is full strength without curing or firing. Well it likes 24 hrs. after pouring, gunning or troweling and setting so maybe it's just a quick cure product. I only brought up the Green Cast in this thread as a potential matrix to hold zirconium as a kiln wash. I have to admit it's been a while since I browsed your site Wayne so I'm not familiar with what you list, and or recommend. Do you have thoughts on kiln washes and products you like? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Frosty, I have not used kiln washes so can't speak to them. Kast-0-Lite is resistant to flux. I seldom use flux in my welding but when I have I notice that in the area it turns black but does not eat into the casting. I use the Kast-0-Lite over 1" of Inswool and then paint over that with Plistix or Metrikote for the IR reflective properties. Yes the Kast-0-Lite is an Alumina product, but not as much as Green Cast 94. Go ahead and go back to my attachments and see why I like to build my forges this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 "Painting" the inside of a furnace is another word for "washing". The Metrikote and Plistix are kiln washes even if you trowel it on. I ran across the term on ceramic kiln sites and have seen it on other furnace sites. I probably saw kiln wash on other sites but not knowing what it was it didn't register. Anyway I use the term now because it's the most common I've run across. Nice site Wayne, well done. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Making reasonably priced highly efficient IR coatings is easy. Making a tough highly insulating IR coating is much more worthwhile, though. If ITC coatings were a dollar a pint, they still wouldn't do anything to toughen up insulating firebricks. But the thicker your "kiln wash" the tougher the brick will become. I think you're onto something important. Helpful hint: high alumina refractory is the next most insulating substance after zirconia, and you can order high alumina refractory in small amount on the Net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Been interesting reading so far. I seem to remember reading someplace the burner goes to the top because propane is heavier than air. I could be totally out to lunch. Though 2 burners blowing up from the bottom does sound like an interesting expiriment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 3 hours ago, Dogsoldat said: Been interesting reading so far. I seem to remember reading someplace the burner goes to the top because propane is heavier than air. I could be totally out to lunch. Though 2 burners blowing up from the bottom does sound like an interesting expiriment. Lots of people write things they figured out themselves without knowing anything. No, the propane is driven into the burner under pressure and that momentum is what supplies the energy necessary to induce combustion air to follow. Maybe Tristan will post a pic of his updraft burner forge, it works a treat. Mike: I buy high alumina refractory by the 50lb. bag but sifting the grog out of it is a bit of a hassle. Were I selling the stuff I'd be thinking bubble alumina would go a long way to insulation and IR reverberatory properties. Hmmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Frosty, What is good about bubble alumina refractories is they are all thigh temperature, what was bad when I last looked is their expense. As you've intimated more than once " everything has its up sides and down sides" I always start out all revved up about high tech products, but as often as not the realities of the wallet, are like a bucket of cold water Would love to see photos of an updraft forge; its one of the many things I've wanted to explore. But there are only so many hours in a day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Grant Sarvers version of updraft forge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4eoDMNhiYA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Ayup, the down side to bubble alumina refractories is the expense, it's as far out of my "reasonable" range as ITC-100 has become. There are insulating rammable and castable refractories that will work fine if not as efficient. I'm not a fan of using perlite in a forge refractory it's melting temperature is just too low at 2,000f. I'd rather use saw dust to make voids in the liner and if you use the right saw dust it makes the shop smell nice till it's burned out. Grant put that little job together more as an example than a working forge. The design is sound but needs refinements, especially burner alignment. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I should stipulate that we-uns over to the casting groups only use Perlite as a third layer outside of the hot-face refractory, and ceramic blanket layers. But, I've wanted to try sawdust added to a semi-insulating refractory like Kast-O-lite 3000 for a while now. So much to try, so little time in a day...The Perlite, when added to refractory melts down to almost nothing, leaving the same kind of void as sawdust, but sawdust is finer than Perlite, which might make for a stronger refractory matrix when all is said and done. What keeps me from employing either of them is that Kast-O-lite 3000 is so tough and so easy to work with; it is just way too satisfactory a product to be improved much; so why go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If your second liner is good enough and an inch of ceramic blanket is usually plenty if it's reasonable flame tight fiberglass insulation works just fine as the outer layer. It too has a melting temp around 2,000f. I've never tried the saw dust treatment though I've thought about it. The practical problem is firing the refractory, bricks, etc. long enough to burn the sawdust out. Think 2-3x as long in the brick kiln as hard brick, say tending the fire for 2 days or better in a home brew operation. I got that from a fellow who spent years doing just that. Here in the US and abroad as a Peace Corps volunteer trying to bring a little industry to the 3rd. world. He said it wasn't too bad when you had village kids to tend the fire for you but modern kiln is the only way to go otherwise. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.