Frosty

T Burner Illustrated Directions

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2 hours ago, ede said:

Hi Frosty, 

I noticed on my 3/4" T burner that the end of the mixing tube has a large ridge on the inside and was wondering if this is normal or something that should be removed?  

Thanks!

The cheaper pipes have a seam, which is where it was welded shut.  The more expensive pipes are seamless.  Some die-hard performance people (I'm looking at  you, Dr Frankenburner) ream the inside of the pipe to remove the seam.  The T-burners I've built have all been seamed, not seamless, and they've worked fairly well for me.

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4 hours ago, ede said:

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That is the burr left by the pipe cutter. While it isn't actually "necessary" to deburr the pipe it helps sometimes significantly. If you have a pipe cutter it will have the deburring reamer on it. It's a conical set of blade that swings out of the tool. Just slip the cone into the pipe and pushing it in with LIGHT pressure turn it till clean.

The weld seam running lengthwise has much less effect, I've cleaned them out both with a boring bar on my lathe and with a broach without noticing enough difference to make the effort worth it. However the T burner isn't  precision built burner so increasing efficiency isn't too hard. I developed it so anybody with basic tools and shop skills could build a reasonably efficient burner for a little money and time.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks for the info, jcornell and Frosty.  I will have to say after making them both ways, finding center with a lathe, vs by hand, it's definitely easier to get it spot on with the lathe.  My first one I tried to find TDC based upon the seam at the top of the T.  The mig tip is a little off center, but hopefully it will still work! 

I went ahead and bored out the burr, but spared the threads per your mention that it really doesn't make that much of a difference to smooth them out. 

By the way, I was wondering if you've ever played around using  asymmetrical sized openings for the air ports.  I saw a T at the hardware store that was 3/4, 1/2, 1/2 that looked like this.  Just curious... .

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Oh yeah, if you have a lathe and a little practice you can crank out burners in about 15 minutes and make them close enough to make tuning a minor detail, MAYBE have to adjust 1/16 or less.

I came up with the drill press method because there just aren't that many guys who have access to or the knowledge to do the job with a lathe. Drill presses are easy to get access to they're everywhere.

That T is appropriate for making a "Side Arm" burner. Good burners just different.

Frosty The Lucky.

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EDE,

Since you named me, I will respond:

This isn't my burner design; I've never even built one, so the reluctance to address another man's burner is more than good manners. The fact is that how general principles apply to any design varies; it even varies between one burner and the next of the same design. And this burner is designed to be simple to build, so anything that turns out to be "gilding the lily" is an offense!

On the other hand, your time is your own, and if you want to spends some of it to help insure the best result, that is also a private decision. My burners are probably a lot touchier than this; yet I have seen some burner sizes to vary much more than others. There have also been individual burners that were touchier than others of the same side. Their are even commercial assembly line products, like cars and guns, who show such variance. So, are you trying for a "one of a thousand" burner, or just wasting time? The answer has to rest with you.

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I was wondering what your guys thoughts would be on a very slight alteration to the frosty T burner construction. I was thinking of using a pipe cross (like this one https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/en/product/CROSS-1-IN-NPT-BLACK-MALLEABLE-IRON/_/R-GGM5PAU7 ) and having a 1/2" mixing tube attach via bell reducer to one end and the accelerator attach to the opposite end via a reducing coupler. Would this work, I'm still new to making burners and am asking because I have access to some free crosses and reducers, but I don't want to blow my self up or anything.

 

On a similar note, I was reading in the burners 101 thread that a smalle mig tip will be needed for the 1/2" diameter mixing tube, would a .021 aperture be sufficiently small? ( I've been trying to find the specific post on accelerator nosle diameters but I just can't find it again) 

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Folk haven't had much luck using reducers in the Ts and crosses. The end mounting the jet (Mig tip) works just fine with a bushing reducer. The problem with a bell or bushing reducer between the T and the burner tube is turbulence in the air stream which reduces efficiency. 

I've found a 0.023" mig contact tip is just about right for a 1/2" T burner.

Frosty The Lucky.

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17 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Folk haven't had much luck using reducers in the Ts and crosses. The end mounting the jet (Mig tip) works just fine with a bushing reducer. The problem with a bell or bushing reducer between the T and the burner tube is turbulence in the air stream which reduces efficiency. 

I've found a 0.023" mig contact tip is just about right for a 1/2" T burner.

Frosty The Lucky.

Cheers Frosty, thanks for the reply! I'll stick with a reducing T then, though I might still play around with the cross and reducers as I have a few of them and don't really have any other use for them.

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If you have some laying around what's the harm giving it a try. Just because I haven't had good luck doesn't mean you won't either. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty,

  One of the required tools is a metal lathe, which I don't have. Are there any alternatives that I can use?  

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Frosty,

  You answered my question back in Nov. 2016. ;)  the drill press method you created and discussed at length in your directions is the alternative.  On page 2 you stated a metal lathe was a primo item to have, which I incorrectly took as a "must have" tool for the build. The precison aspect was my main concern, since there was a emphasis on that word. It will serve me well to read each archived post before asking further questions.  

BTW,  I wished you had a YouTube Channel so I could pick your brain virtually.  You seemed to have forgotten more in one day than I have learned in a lifetime. 

Edited by Turdtunnel
I was educated!

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Just wanted to chime in on the versatility of this burner. Frosty..your a genius. I work at 7000 feet elevation. With the thin air we have, we have to rejet carbs, it takes more heat too boil water, and FORGET about the idea of a naturally aspirated burner that you could forge weld with. At least that is what I was told.

But I'm stubborn. So I built a propane tank forge, 2" kaowool, and used hard fire brick for the floor. Then built a 3/4 t-burner. I followed Frostys instructions closely. Had to try 3 current mig tips. But very quickly I had a forge that will weld 1/2 mild rod within 10 minutes of first light...in -15 Fahrenheit.

Follow the directions, build an efficient forge, don't use hard firebrick(waiting fit the good stuff), and be patient. That burner design is versatile, simple, and cheap. Thanks again Frosty

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Can someone please confirm this is the part needed for the T burner?  Living in the city has limited my ability to get certain pieces so I been to multiple different areas to get the parts. 

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No Mitch this is not the right part.  The male thread at the top of the adapter is correct, it will fit into the T fitting after you drill and tap it for 1/8" pipe thread.  The other end of the adapter may or may not be right depending on how you want to connect propane to the Burner.  Frosty used 1/4" copper pipe his adapter (the one above)  therefore was a 1/4" flare, that means it is a male thread,  it fit his copper pipe nut.  If you are going to use a rubber propane hose the bottom part of the adapter should be a 3/8" flare.  And by flare I mean it should look like a male thread with a bull nose ending.  

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Stockmaker,

  Thank you very much for your quick response and willingness to help. I'm having a really hard time finding the correct part. I wanted to go with the hose for the propane burner so the 3/8 flare makes since. I'm stuck with relying on a google searches for the part because no one in the big box stores in San Diego know what I'm asking for. I found the following part by searching 1/8" MPT x 3/8" male flare. Is this correct?  I want to order several of them because I know I will make mistakes along the way, but I really want to learn how to do this. 

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Hi Mitch, I would suggest doing a google search for propane suppliers or natural gas suppliers, even hvac and plumbing suppliers in your local area, I'm sure there are more than a few. Give them a call and give them a rough idea what you are looking for. The staff at those types of shops are infinitely more helpful and will know more than most staff at big box stores.

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On 1/26/2017 at 1:17 AM, Mitch W. said:

You seemed to have forgotten more in one day than I have learned in a lifetime. 

The day the birch fell....

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If at all possible forget about the Big Box stores at least till you've built a couple. Buy your fittings at the local Plumbing or HVAC supply. Those folk talk to plumbers and heating and AC installers, service, etc. folk and have to KNOW what they're talking about.

When you're talking to the counter guys at the pro shop don't tell them you're making a burner, keep it simple just tell them you want a fitting to connect 1/8" MPT to a propane hose. They'll ask if the hose has a male of female connection or just show you the bin.

If you ask them to help you build a propane burner they'll clam up. It's a liability issue and they can not afford to take a chance. The guys at the corner supply know what I do with their parts and we don't talk about it. They're most helpful if I'm discrete. 

Keep it simple 1/8" mpt - male or female propane hose fitting. Even a big box associate might be able to help you but don't count on it, they're not hired because they're experts.

Oh and you're welcome, I just adapted OLD tech. The moment or real acquity came when it FINALLY occurred to me I could use a floor flange and drill press. That was a real head slapper of a moment.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty, I just wanted to say "thanks"!  I built a burner from your design in a very short time, and it works beautifully.  Well done!

 

Dave

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Frosty,

  Hoping to get a response from you regarding the burner I put together. I experienced a few problems to say the least. I attempted to use the "chuck" to start the the threading but I screwed it up. I tried to hand turn the press while the chuck was inserted, but I couldn't get the bit to turn. Not sure if it is a safety feature or what, but the drill press would not spin once I tried to hand turn. So I went to the hand and eyeball method which turned out like junk. I'll need to practice a few more times on some scrap pieces to get it down. I quickly realized the domino effect of having a bad tap. Everything else was completely off.  Thoughts?  Concerns?  

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The T is shifting in the drill vise. I had success holding the T by the arms, but even with a machinist's experience and a high dollar 4 way drill vise it was shifty. This is the main reason I finally came to the head slapping realization a floor flange is THE way to hold the T and jet assembly in a drill press.

If nothing moves one tool follows the last on the same center line within the drill press's tolerances. Once I drill the T I don't remove it till the last piece is drilled and threaded. You can drill and tap the brass fitting full length if necessary. 

A pair of channel locks will turn the drill chuck if you can't get enough leverage on the chuck key.

When you're hand turning the drill press UNPLUG IT!!! You'd be amazed how easy it is to flip the switch on even if you don't mean to, it's a long learned reflex to tighten a drill bit and turn it on. Unplug it.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thank you!  I knew I should have left the T fitting in the vise. I pulled it out to inspect the hole I drilled and then realized I would have a problem lining the everything back up to thread it. I don't know why I even inspected the hole, BC I'm not even certain what I was looking for. 

And yes, I did unplug the drill press. When you stated that it goes against everything you know to do it that way, I took heed. I can only imagine  all the carnage involved in learning that lesson the hard way. I need my hands to work and I've grown rather fond of them over the years.

I'm going to get a floor flange tonight and practice it a few times tomorrow.  I pretty excited to see how it goes tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for the help. 

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