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T Burner Illustrated Directions


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Just an observation, and something I’ve never noticed before, but it looks like you are getting some very hot spots on the MiG tips in the T burners. Could it be that the when the higher forge temperature is achieved, it starts over heating the MiG tips increasing the diameter throwing the mix ratio off. The result being a delayed drop in efficiency and forge temperature?

I can’t remember ever seeing a hot spot inside a T burner. (I’m a solid fuel user...)

David

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Managed to put up with the heatwave here in Northern CA long enough to get my T-burner put together and try tuning it... Having very limited success right now and could use some advise...

As built, and not in a forge (too hot to get more than one layer of ceramic wool installed and rigidizer is still drying...) it will not stay lit. Shortened the MIG tip incrementally until there was only about 1/4" left and still no luck. I ended up trying to cover some of the air inlet with my hand and that got it running, not great but enough that I know it must be running too lean normally. I superglued about 1/3 of another tip onto the end of a new one and it will now stay lit and work at about 1psi on the regulator/gauge. (edit for clarification, will go out if pressure goes much above 1 PSI. Much like with the shorter tip but those wouldn't even stay lit at low pressure.)

From what I've been reading I think that it's longer than what most people end up using but I can't figure out why mine is so different. I built it exactly according to the directions at the beginning of this thread, nothing is grossly misaligned, so I am semi stumped. And combined with the heat it was a rather frustrating weekend to say the least. I hate not being at least somewhat productive.

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Don't have any right now but can take photos when I get off work. It's built exactly the same as Frosty's. 1"x3/4" Red Tee, 6" nip, 1/4" nip into the middle of the tee with a .035 mig tip threaded into the 1/4" nip. Nothing on the "nozzle end" of the 6"x3/4" nip, maybe it needs a coupler/thread protector or something? 

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Nogoodwithusernames im certainly not the guy to be asking, Frosty is. Ive used forges a lot but not built many. However im not sure it will light with only 1 psi. I light mine at around 8-10 psi but im feathering the gas upon lighting. Don’t just crank it on at that psi when u put a flame to it but it needs some pressure to run after the initial lighting. CHECK FOR LEAKS FIRST. You may have a leak you dont notice. It won’t run right if you do and it’s dangerous. 

I think the coupler is optional in fact I have a NC forge with nothing on the end and it runs fine. 

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58 minutes ago, NoGoodWithUsernames said:

Nothing on the "nozzle end" of the 6"x3/4" nip, maybe it needs a coupler/thread protector or something?

Yes it does if you're trying to keep it lit outside the forge.  It will just continue to blow the flame off the end of the burner tube otherwise.  Inside the forge you're more likely to be able to keep it lit, but you may need to run at fairly low pressure until the forge starts to glow.  Once the forge is hot you can turn it up all you want (within reasonable operating range of the burner) and it will stay lit.

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Thank you all for the help! I think a big portion of it was not having a "nozzle". I went ahead and put that on last night and tried it out again and was able to get it running much easier, did some rough tuning and get a nice blue flame with some orange wisps at the end. Much more please with that. 

Also some photos because everyone likes show and tell.

 

 

 

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Edited by NoGoodWithUsernames
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On 8/14/2020 at 1:40 PM, Goods said:

it looks like you are getting some very hot spots on the MiG tips

Where do you see that happening David? I almost never watch videos so if that's the place to see this, I might take a look. 

If the propane jets (mig contact tips) are getting hot then the flame is in the burner tube and that's a fail condition. The mig tips should be cold enough to stick to your damp finger, frost bite you if they're running even.

Putting another layer of ceramic blanket and a layer of hard refractory should bring the volume down to reasonable though the length isn't going to produce an even forge temp. And lose the choke plates, once we get your burners working properly you don't need them at all. Unless you WANT to run a reducing forge atmosphere, then a little aluminum foil to partially cover the air intakes works a treat.

I'll have to get back on other folks questions, we have primary elections today and there's no telling what sorts of pandemic shenanigans we'll have to put up with.

Back later. Frosty The Lucky.

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On 8/10/2020 at 10:37 PM, Tradguy said:

 

Frosty help please

 

Frosty, I noticed in the first picture of the post when zoomed in that there’s a bright spot on both MiG tips. It could just be light from the forge, but when light is coming through so is heat. Couldn’t tell if it was hot or not from the picture. Maybe just an odd ball observation...

David

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OK, so I have read this entire thread and there are just a few things I don't understand. Firstly, when you say "tune the burner" do you just mean adjusting the length of the mig tip or is more involved? Secondly, would a coupler work as a nozzle or is there something special about the diameter of the thread protector?

I really appreciate you for putting this you into the world and for constantly troubleshooting. I wouldn't have the patience for this so all props to you

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Yes, the way I adjust the fuel air ratio is by the position of the end of the mig tip from the end of the mixing tube. The farther back from the mixing tube the more air it will induce per unit of fuel making the flame more lean. 

I recommend thread protectors because they're as cheap as it gets, not for any performance issue. The only other issue with a coupler is needing to drill a larger dia. hole in the forge shell to mount one. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I was building some t burners today and the 1/4"x1/8" mip flare adapter's I got where to large on the ID to tap the 1/4x28 thread. Just a heads up on this brand. Got some others from another hardware store and they where perfect. 

 

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I believe I recommended taking the pilot drill for the tap into the HVAC supply to gauge the fittings. There is a lot of variation in ID on fittings so you have to check.

Frosty The Lucky.

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That would make sense.  It is one of them important details I forgot or overlooked.  No biggy.  They only cost about a dollar here and its the only part of the burner I didn't get for free. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another jig I made for hand drilling was to grind the teeth off an old hole saw that barely slipped into the T. I replaced the hole saw's pilot bit with the bit to fit the tap. That let me clamp the T in a vise and drill it by hand. 

I was less lucky using the hole saw jig drilling and tapping the brass fitting for the mig tip though.

Frosty The Lucky.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I managed to finish up 2 3/4" T's today.  I also managed to get my old propane tank cut open and cleaned up (man my arms are tired and numb after running the angle grinder that long!).

So I have questions on burner attachment.  What is the best way?  How big of a hole do I need to drill in the shell? Should the burner just barely slip into the hole or have some space?  Can I bolt/rivet/weld a flange where the burner will attach and just screw it to that or does it need to go into the shell? If so, how far? And can I do the flange idea but using a bigger pipe to act as a holder then?

 

Thanks!

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There are a lot of different ways to mount burners but I think the better for now is welding a sleeve to the forge shell and placing 3 threaded places around the circumference for set screws. I know I didn't specify, drill ad tap holes or weld bolts to the sleeve or whatever. Some guys are using 6 set screws and I believe that'd give a person more control of the burner's alignment in the forge.

I recommend only inserting the burner end just inside the insulating refractory, 1/2" is plenty. The farther into the chamber the hotter the burner will get. You do NOT want the burner nozzle getting hotter than necessary.

Frosty The Lucky.

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