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T Burner Illustrated Directions

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16 minutes ago, picker77 said:

In the last hour or so I did a little exercise. I totaled up the projected cost of actual materials, item by item, including shipping costs, tax, etc. of everything I could think of that I'd need to buy in order to build a two-burner forge (purchasing everything new, without scrounging around for junk parts, using salvage materials, cutting up barrels or old tanks, etc.). The total, which was quite an eye-opener, came to just about $400.

Diamond back may well be the best dollar value in commercial forges, so at least half your thinking is dead on. How much money it would cost to build a two burner forge looks high to me, but if you include your time in the expense it may end up low.

Most people who build, rather than buy, a forge are either short of cash or desiring a forge they don't think they can buy; neither reason tends to work out well. Some people want the experience of building their own tool, or want a better forge (hotter, and/or more efficient); if they are careful and lucky they get everything they are looking for. In the end it's always a personal decision. I think yours was a smarter than average one :D

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Thanks Mikey, I’ve read a lot of your stuff and I value your opinion. It was really a no-brainer when I took time to think about it and was honest with myself about what I really wanted. I very much want to learn to forge, but learning all the ins and outs and little niggles of proper forge building, although interesting, is way down my list.

 

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We built our forge because we had all the materials on hand, (old propane bottle, kayowool, burner, refractory, ridgizer etc.) due to our pottery side of the business that we closed years ago. If we had to go out and buy all the supplies we sure as heck would have bought the Diamondback. I'm not sure but I think the Diamondback still needs to be ridgized but that's minor.

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The owner is cranky, but his product has proved its worth over a long period of time. It isn't just forge construction that takes too much research. Which commercial forge to choose can take almost as much time, and has just as many pitfalls. I think Diamond back gives the best value for dollars spent. I also like how well they hold up over the years; those are hard values to beat.

There are cheaper import forges, if you only want a single burner size, and are willing to do some finish work to get the savings. But once you look at two burner forges, the imports cost as much as a Diamondback, without the quality.

Can you buy a better forge? Sure--for three times the price...

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Just ordered the single burner version of the Diamondback "Knifemaker/Welding" forge. Wanted the idler valve kit but not in stock. Guess I can add it later.

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IFC, if I read their website correctly they don't require any further work, other than a trip to the propane tank store.

"Exterior dimensions are 9 1/4" long, 7 1/4" wide and 7 1/2" high, Interior dimensions are 9" long, 4 1/2" wide and 3 1/4" high, End Openings are 4 1/2" wide x 2" high. There is an opening at each end of this unit to allow long stock to pass through.

 The liner is lightweight refractory, with the burner flares cut into the refractory material.  The walls and ceiling are insulated with Ceramic Hardboard. The floor uses a dense refractory brick to handle the high mechanical wear the floor must endure. The floor is easily replaced without having to take the Forge apart, it simply slides out the end openings"

I'll know for sure sometime next week. :)

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If I don't mis-remember, there are instruction for building an idler circuit on Ron Reil's burner pages; they are pretty simple, and cheap to put together.

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Good choice Picker, I've heard very little bad about Diamondback and that's mostly about customer service.  I'd be mighty tempted to replace the dense hard firebrick floor with kiln shelf but I tinker. A coat of kiln wash would be a good idea if for no other reason than it'll make the liner last a LOT longer.

Knowing what you want is a benefit of having some mileage on us. You want to do some blacksmithing more than build forges, no reason to spend good learning time at the anvil monkeying around with a forge build instead. 

I think your home build price is high but time is all we have we can't get back.

Well done and we'll still talk your leg off if you give us the chance. Remember, we LOVE pics.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I'm of the age that I value my time more than I used to, Frosty, and you're right that time was a factor. Not to worry, I'll continue to wear you guys out with questions. Right now I'm starting to research an idle circuit for this little forge, which seems to me to be practically a necessity - but there doesn't seem to be a lot of specific cookbook how-to info out there on actually putting one together. Could this be an opportunity for a new Frosty PDF file? Heh.

I did see a diagram on Ron Riel's website, but that's it so far. Larry Zoeller has a kit of parts to build what looks like a fairly complex idler circuit for $75, but there's no indication that any instructions are included with his kit. Lots to learn yet!

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Man, if I would have known that I could pick up a small commercial forge with a good reputation for that price, it would have been mighty tempting. But now, finally having completed my own home build, I don't regret a thing. I learned a lot, can definitely improve upon the next one, and had a blast while doing it. But, I'm one that doesn't mind spending my time on such boondoggles (is it a boondoggle if it works?).

I figured it was time for an update since I have been silent for months. But Frosty, I just want to thank you again for all of your help and advice, and to let you know that my 1/2" burner works fantastically in my forge( as far as I can tell)! It lights right up, runs like a champ, and gets everything glowing within about 10 minutes, roughly. I ended up ditching any form of a flame nozzle, although the way the port is made, it is likely serving much of that purpose. I think I will start a thread about the build, as I have pictures from start to finish.  This weekend I forged my first useful thing! A hammer wedge out of an old door hinge pin. I'm having so much fun so far and can't wait to actually learn what I'm doing! 

20190717_233645.jpg

20190721_135245.jpg

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Congrats, Nconoan! Nice job, that's some serious refractory. And I echo the Frosty attaboy, he's been a big help, as have a couple of his co-mudgeons. Yep, I was started down a similar build road, but it would probably have been close to cold weather by the time I was actually forging something, so I wimped out and went commercial. My new forge will be here tomorrow, will be picking up a 30 lb bottle from my friends at Home Depot this week to feed it. Building a mobile stand, and also need to mount my refurbed post vise. I've been reading about CO on the forum lately (:o!!). I've seen hundreds of photos of gas forges being run full blast inside shops on the forum, but little mention of CO concerns or precautions - seems most folks don't seem to worry much about it. Anyway, being increasingly cautious in my "get off my lawn" years (too soon old, too late smart), I'm picking up a a digital CO detector today. I might even also revise the plan for my intended work area a bit because of CO concerns, as in move the forge location just outside the shop when it's being used. It would really tick me off to foolishly shorten the limited play time I have left on this planet. Forge on, looking forward to joining you, and don't forget a CO detector.

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Warnings of CO exposure are a running theme throughout the forum. Adequate ventilation and CO detectors are mentioned often, especially in conjunction with gas forges. The only other warning that I can think of that even comes close in frequency has to do with zinc or other coatings on steel.

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Thanks Picker! Nothing wrong with going commercial, and there's a lot to be said about focusing and using your time wisely, let us know how that new forge works for you! Also, I was thinking of CO yesterday as I had my forge running. It was at the threshold of my garage with the door open, but the anvil was inside the garage, so I had ventilation concerns. What did you end up going with for a CO monitor? I was going to look them up today. 

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Now that I've started paying attention to it, I see more mentions. Thanks, Buzzkill.

Nconoan, I got one today at good 'ol Home Depot, it's a Kidde with a 10-year Lithium battery preinstalled. Around $40 and worth every nickel. For an extra $20 they'll sell you one that yells at you like Alexa in addition to sounding an alarm. I passed on that one. :) 

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On 7/22/2019 at 7:33 AM, Buzzkill said:

Warnings of CO exposure are a running theme throughout the forum. Adequate ventilation and CO detectors are mentioned often, especially in conjunction with gas forges. The only other warning that I can think of that even comes close in frequency has to do with zinc or other coatings on steel.

It can't be mentioned often enough!

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What’s the right size T for a 1” burner?  Do I need to follow the 1”x3/4” pattern and get a 1.25”x1”?  Or will 1”x1” be sufficient?

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Certainly you can use a 1" x 1" T but you'll need to use a smaller dia. mig tip. 1.25" x 1" works nicely with a 0.045 mig tip and puts out about 2x the heat of a 3/4" burner.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks Frosty.   
 

quick follow up.  Is there a reason that lower PSI is desirable?  Since PSI doesn’t affect volume of gas consumed, should I care if I’m running 2 or 10 psi?  It seems folks like the idea of getting down to 2 PSI and I’m unsure why.

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24 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Actually a higher psi does consume more fuel.

Ok, back to reading.   I was thinking psi didn’t determine CFM or volume.

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Yes, it does, but the other part of the equation is how large is the gas orifice that that pressure is poring out of. However, the next question is flame  speed, which can also impact amount of fuel used. Is there a simple answer? Yes, and as usual the simple answer is likely to end up being short of relevant.

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On 7/17/2019 at 8:37 PM, picker77 said:

Just ordered the single burner version of the Diamondback "Knifemaker/Welding" forge

I've been considering the single burner blacksmith forge. Let us know how it goes and if there's any issues after a while in use. I like the idea of a turn key forge and burner. I don't have a lot of time to spare so this could solve the problem. I'm especially interested in the longevity of the liner. 

pnut

Picker I just noticed this is in a t burner thread. Maybe you could start a new thread after you've used the DB forge for a while.

Edited by pnut

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