T Burner Illustrated Directions

[Frosty]

I didn't learn about leaving the key in chucks the hard way, it was drummed into our heads from the first day of metal shop 1 and Dad would say unkind things to anyone who left the key in a chuck at all. Anyone interested can probably find a "Fatalgram" about someone getting hit by a key or wrapped up in a chuck. 

I still have all my appendages and sensors, they make life soooo much easier. My left eye and ear are only about 35%, TBI nerve damage but they still work. 

It's a serious PITA to get a drilled hole lined back up on a bit once it's been moved. It's common to want to look at the hole you just drilled, rarely makes sense to do so but it's a natural urge. Done it too many times to be able to claim being a quick study myself.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daninghram]

Should the end of the mig tip be half the nipple diameter away from the end of the pipe nipple or in to the T that far? I am having trouble tuning. Lots of yellow flame in the forge.

 

[MonkeyForge]

The intruction as i remember states half the diameter of the inlet. It has a picture, too. For tuning you can start trimming from there. Do you have a picture of the current state of the burner? Also of the flames. What pressure are you running it at?

[VainEnd84]

Frosty  Have you ever experimented with putting baffles (not sure if that is the correct term) on the openings of your T burners to help further tune them?

[Frosty]

Naw, once they're tuned there is no point. Properly tuned a naturally aspirated burner with a good balance between jet and air intake area has an output that's a curve close enough to flat at all practical input psi as to make no difference for a small scale applications.

If you're controlling the air intake with a valve the proper term is "Choke" just like on a carburetor on a gas engine.

Baffles are typically used to control turbulence or other effects in a gas/liquid flow. Digging trenches with zig zags during WWI $ WWII was to baffle the shock waves of explosives landing in them. Mike talks about baffles in front of forge openings to reflect Infrared radiation back into the chamber. The reverse thrust on most jet liners is done with baffles that fold out into the engine thrust and redirect it forward.

Yeah I'm going on again but words have meanings so we don't have to guess at what someone means. Not so much that is.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[VainEnd84]

Thanks for the reply and info! I love this site, I learn more every time I come on it and people are very helpful.

[Daninghram]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 2:19 PM, MonkeyForge said:

The intruction as i remember states half the diameter of the inlet. It has a picture, too. For tuning you can start trimming from there. Do you have a picture of the current state of the burner? Also of the flames. What pressure are you running it at?

I made a new burner this weekend with the help of a friend that has a nice shop. This one was done on a lathe and is straight. I may still need to cut a little bit off the tip . . Seems much better, the other one was crooked. I will try to get pictures.  

[Square Nail]

On 2/24/2017 at 4:36 PM, Frosty said:

The T is shifting in the drill vise. I had success holding the T by the arms, but even with a machinist's experience and a high dollar 4 way drill vise it was shifty. This is the main reason I finally came to the head slapping realization a floor flange is THE way to hold the T and jet assembly in a drill press.

If nothing moves one tool follows the last on the same center line within the drill press's tolerances. Once I drill the T I don't remove it till the last piece is drilled and threaded. You can drill and tap the brass fitting full length if necessary. 

A pair of channel locks will turn the drill chuck if you can't get enough leverage on the chuck key.

When you're hand turning the drill press UNPLUG IT!!! You'd be amazed how easy it is to flip the switch on even if you don't mean to, it's a long learned reflex to tighten a drill bit and turn it on. Unplug it.

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty, you are a genius! The floor flange works great, however, I drilled out two of the holes on the floor flange to accept a 5/16 bolt and bolted it to the drill press base. That allowed me to swing the T out of the way to change bits and swing it back to the same exact spot every time. I was also able to thread the brass fitting backwards through the T and drill and tap the fitting the same way using the drill press rather than by hand. 

[Frosty]

25 minutes ago, Square Nail said:

Frosty, you are a genius! The floor flange works great, however, I drilled out two of the holes on the floor flange to accept a 5/16 bolt and bolted it to the drill press base. That allowed me to swing the T out of the way to change bits and swing it back to the same exact spot every time. I was also able to thread the brass fitting backwards through the T and drill and tap the fitting the same way using the drill press rather than by hand. 

 I put the Genius thing right back on you! I tried a couple carriage bolts through the flange and table but they were too sloppy. I'll give drilling the holes out a try. 

Good one. Frosty The Lucky.

[Mike Hall]

I'm having trouble finding the 1/8" mpt x ¼" flare fitting locally. I just checked Lowes and they don't carry them from what I can see. Where have others found this fitting?

Mike

[Frosty]

Big box stores only carry a token supply of plumbing and heating supplies and the staff are clueless except to point you at a section or bin. You need to go to a proper Heating and Plumbing Supply  The guys I buy from are just up the road from me "Alaska Goldstar Plumbing and Heating Inc." I'm Not advertising for them I'm just  posting an example of the kind of name to look for in the PHONE BOOK. 

If you can't find a supplier in the phone book No NOT online, the paper phone book yellow pages, let your fingers do the walking is far better for finding things. Where was I? Okay, if you can't find a direct listing funny names abound, call a HVAC repair or servicing company or a plumber and ask. NOT for the fitting but where THEY buy parts.

If you ask them for a fitting to make a burner they're going to get cagey about answering to avoid liability issues. No pro wants to help somebody make a "home made gas burning appliance." There are real and serious liability issues for them. Asking will just confuse you. I know, I've been shopping at Gold Star for years and they're still careful about what they say Ive shown them my burners and a couple have visited at demos and seen them in action. They're still careful not to acknowledge what I'm doing.

Sorry, got involved beyond your question. Big box stores are no joy, dry holes in general. Plumbing suppliers are the place even if you have to order online, Granger carries the stuff and is as close to a big box as does.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jwilson645]

2 hours ago, Mike Hall said:

I'm having trouble finding the 1/8" mpt x ¼" flare fitting locally. I just checked Lowes and they don't carry them from what I can see. Where have others found this fitting?

Mike

I ordered mine from Grainger and picked up at the local store. 

[Mike Hall]

1 hour ago, jwilson645 said:

I ordered mine from Grainger and picked up at the local store. 

Thanks jwilson645

[Square Nail]

8 hours ago, Mike Hall said:

I'm having trouble finding the 1/8" mpt x ¼" flare fitting locally. I just checked Lowes and they don't carry them from what I can see. Where have others found this fitting?

Mike

Our local hardware store carries them. Try Ace or True Value.

[Mike Hall]

Where do you all get the tweco .035 tips with the 1/4-28 thread?

[Mberghorn]

40 minutes ago, Mike Hall said:

Where do you all get the tweco .035 tips with the 1/4-28 thread?

I got mine off Ebay. Don't get too wrapped up in the name brand though. Your local welding supply should have tips for .035 wire in different threads, you just might have to specify what you want is all.

[Mike Hall]

Thanks Mberghorn! I called Airgas and told them I just needed a .035 tip with 1/4-28 threads and I'm all set. I picked up 10 just so I didn't have to go looking for them for a little while. 

[Mberghorn]

Awesome! That'll give you some extras for when you mess one up which, if you're like me, you'll need a few....

[Frosty]

Well done Mike, good job of search and acquire.

Our local welding supply also carries taps for chasing out damaged threads in mig torches. Some outfits don't know what threads the variety of contact tips they carry have so just take a 1/4"x28 nut with you and check.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mike Hall]

Thanks Frosty. I have a couple more challenges. 

1. Need to call around and see if I can find thread protectors. Any thoughts on alternatives?

2. Locating the correct pressure regulator and associated hardware. Any thoughts on this?

I may also have to buy another 3/4x1x1 tee. It appears I drilled the hole crooked and the jets isn't in the center of the 3/4 hole. Am I correct in reading the plans that the mig tip should only extend halfway into the T? If so do you have any good suggestions on cutting the mig tip down without messing up the .035 opening?

[Frosty]

Big box stores don't carry the more specialized stuff, try a REAL plumbing supply. They may have the high pressure/volume 0-30psi propane regulators and rated gauges as well, if not hit the propane distributor's office they should have the stuff on the shelf.

Big box stores buy short lengths of pipe, and those are covered by plastic thread protectors. A regular plumbing supply buys in 20' lengths plastic isn't enough to protect pallet loads of 20' lengths those threads are protected by internally threaded steel protectors. They appear like connectors but are not allowed as connectors bu code or manufacture. They're over threaded so trying to connect to lengths of pipe can't make a tight connection. Anyway, the HVAC service and supply shop up the road from me has boxes of thread protectors they toss when someone gets around to it. They are frankly happy when I ask for a couple, last time I left with 30-40 of the things.

I use a little cut off wheel in a Dremmel with the mig tip turning in my drill press. With practice you can keep the combined direction of the wheel and tip cutting away from the orifice and not have a burr to clean up. However the easy way is to use a welding torch tip cleaning file set.

About half way across the air intake side of the T is only a beginning point, not THE correct distance. There are too many variables to give a set distance in the directions.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I searched on Charlotte NC and propane regulators and found there were only 50 entries under the YP (Yellow Pages); None of them had a 0-30 psi regulator or 0-15 psi one?

All the propane supply companies in my rural town of 10K people sell the same brands as the ones down here next to the big city in a different state and usually within 5 to 10 dollars in price.

Seems strange to be asking a local question on an international forum...I'd suggest asking around at the next ABANA affiliate meeting to get the straight local dope (and regulators!)

[jcornell]

5 hours ago, Mike Hall said:

Thanks Frosty. I have a couple more challenges. 

1. Need to call around and see if I can find thread protectors. Any thoughts on alternatives?

2. Locating the correct pressure regulator and associated hardware. Any thoughts on this?

I may also have to buy another 3/4x1x1 tee. It appears I drilled the hole crooked and the jets isn't in the center of the 3/4 hole. Am I correct in reading the plans that the mig tip should only extend halfway into the T? If so do you have any good suggestions on cutting the mig tip down without messing up the .035 opening?

Go to the electrical section of the big box store and pick up conduit connector - it's basically a threaded tube - 1/2" for a 1/2" burner, 3/4" for a 3/4" burner, etc.  You'll have to soak the zinc coating off - I use muiratic acid.

A very cheap 0-30 regulator is the https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PS0938/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 bayou classic - it's what I've been using for the last two years.  I added a t to the line so I could add a pressure gauge.

[Mike Hall]

Thanks JCornell! I'll check it out.

[Mike Hall]

13 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

I searched on Charlotte NC and propane regulators and found there were only 50 entries under the YP (Yellow Pages); None of them had a 0-30 psi regulator or 0-15 psi one?

All the propane supply companies in my rural town of 10K people sell the same brands as the ones down here next to the big city in a different state and usually within 5 to 10 dollars in price.

Seems strange to be asking a local question on an international forum...I'd suggest asking around at the next ABANA affiliate meeting to get the straight local dope (and regulators!)

Thomas,

I thought I answered you, but I don't see it. I wasn't actually asking for local info....I was just asking about specifics on what hardware to look for. I'm new to gas forges and just want to make sure I get the right hardware.