Anvil Substitute?

[Exo313]

Thinking about purchasing some 6" round bar that I can get my hands on for a dollar-ish a pound. 12" lengths. I'm thinking it could make a decent anvil.

I've sourced it at two different places, each one has a different type of steel. Prices are pretty close. One is offering 1045, the other 1018. 

Thoughts? Comments? Will the round profile give me too much trouble? I was planning on standing it up on end.

[Dogsoldat]

the 1018 will be a little on the soft side.  1045 is your better choice and it can be hardened to some degree.If you find you really need a flat just take an angle grinder and make a flat.

[Anthony San Miguel]

With prices pretty close to each other that wouldn't even be a choice. 1045!!

[MarkDobson]

1045 without a doubt. Will be tougher and can be hardened if you so desire

[ThomasPowers]

At around $100 it seems like you might be able to find a cheaper source'  My scrapyard sells at 20 cents a pound.

[Quarry Dog]

  He could get cheaper, but whether or not they'd know what it was at the yard depends on how well they keep track of their remnant pile.  One of my favorite steel yards around here does not keep very good track unless it is galvanized, copper, or something else they can charge a lot extra for.

  That said, I imagine that hardening the face of that big of a chunk will be quite a chore.  Hardfacing isn't real entertaining either, trust me on that.  Using whatever you get as is would be acceptable, although I understand rebound might not be as good.  Definitely some things to think about.

[Exo313]

My other challenge has been trying to find a scrapyard around here that will sell to the public, not too many around by first appearances. (They'll accept from you, just don't want people poking around for insurance reasons, etc)

Also, the part I'm trying to wrap my head around, should I need to harden, is not so much the heat aspect (really big fire, no big problem. I have a place I can go do that...) but the quench. I'm assuming it's going to be nearly as difficult as quenching an anvil, in that I need fast-flowing water?

[Exo313]

Well, that's entertaining... just after saying I couldn't find a local yard open to the public, I found one. May pop by there as well, see what's kicking around.

[ThorsHammer82]

I would think if the container of water has a large enough volume it wouldn't have to be fast flowing. Like a large water troth, or even a large garbage can/Recycle bin.

Just so long as you've got the ability to move the anvil around in the water Vertically and horizontally.

[ThomasPowers]

Unfortunately this is wrong as you need to blast through the steam layer to get contact with the metal itself.  That is why anvil manufacturers used flumes and height to get the proper hardening of their anvils.  (and Charles McRaven used the VFW's high pressure fire hose...described in "Country Blacksmithing")

[Exo313]

Hm. I may have access to a pond and a pond pump?? Have to ask.

[VaughnT]

1045 in a 6x12 chunk would make a great anvil.  

If you know anyone on the local volunteer fire department, you might be able to get them to quench the hot metal with their fire hose!  It takes a lot of gallons per minute to blast through the steam jacket and cool the steel.

It's definitely worth it, though.  If you can get more 1045 chunks, you could retail them as blade smith anvil, jeweler's anvils, etc.  There's definitely a market for them.

[Everything Mac]

If you have a way to get it hot enough and quench it then I'd be tempted to give hardening it a go. But personally I wouldn't bother. 1045 should be reasonably tough on its own and a block that size would last you a long time before needing to be ground down or changed out entirely. 

Just buy it and start hammering!  

All the best 

Andy

[WL smith]

Have you thought about work hardening it with simply hammering on the end. It does work. It won't be a deep hardening but will be useful for hot metal.  

[Exo313]

I had considered that, yes. Comes to mind, old anvils were pretty much chunks of wrought, work hardened over their lifetime, no? Before they started with forge welding on harder faceplates and such?

[ThomasPowers]

Yes; of course working real wrought iron at the high heats it needs mean they were working a much softer material too.  Several of the early "cube" anvils I have seen in museums have a lovely mushroom shape on them from being worked on for decades if not centuries.

[Matthew D]

Exo,

When I got started into smithing (making blades), some 20 years ago, my first anvil was exactly what you are describing.  I was lucky enough to find a piece of 6 inch round about 14-16 inches long at the dump. (free is always nice )  Took quite a grunt to get in the back of the pickup.  I never worried about hardening it at all.  I think over time and use a non-hardened surface will work harden to a certain degree, just like WL suggests.    

I hear you on the scrap yards not selling to the public.  Some will, some won't.  Contact them through their websites and find out.  They are loosing out when they don't.  

Another thought is to see if there a mining company or heavy equipment repair company in your area.  Some of the axles from those big mining trucks get broken and need to be replaced.  If you could get your hands on one of those and cut it to the length you want, you would have yourself a nice anvil.  I have been thinking about doing the same.  

Another idea is to take the round stock and have a machine shop mill a couple parallel flats in it on opposite sides.  See attachment.  Keep the face 4-5 inches across.  Then give the flats an 1/8 to 3/16 radius to work on.  This would give you more versatility.  One last thought is to take three pieces of 1 inch bar stock (two 3 inch pieces and a 2 inch piece) and weld them together and onto one side to make yourself a hardy hole.  Attached is the basic idea of what I have been thinking about for an anvil.  

I want to make something like this just for a striking anvil.  

Anyhow, good luck.  Look forward to hearing what you end up with.  

 

I'm a blacksmith.  What's your superpower?  

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Matthew D

[ThomasPowers]

Honest Bob of SOFA fame used to do demo's just using a section of good sized shafting as his anvil. He had his stump carved out to hold it on the flat or on it's side to use the curve of the shaft for drawing like some of use our anvil horns.  

I wouldn't trade weight for versatility, though  a 1" flat might be handy.  As for a hardy hole: just weld on some structural tubing or a sq tube PTO shaft or other heavy tubing.  If it gets ugly after a while just replace it!