78sharpshooter Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I wish I started off with a ribbon burner forge because this forge gets incredibly hot very quick (I have never had a propane forge that you had to keep an eye on because it could burn half inch bar pretty quick). I used a 100 lbs propane tank to make this forge, 2 layers of 1" kaowool, then about 7/16" of mizzou, then shot a 1 to 2mm thick layer of 70% Zircon 30% Kaolin. I previously had 2 one inch pipe venturi burners in this forge and it got hot enough to use but simply lacked the ability to get to the upper range of forging temp. The ribbon burner works so well that I had to keep my sunglasses on to be able to look inside the forge. The soft firebrick I use, that has lasted over a year, to take up space in the back of the forge broke apart from the heat of the ribbon burner. So the point of this post is to hopefully inform those who are building a forge that the ribbon burner is hands down the way to go in terms of 1) time it takes to get the forge to temp, 2) workpiece heating time, and 3) forge welding. (at least this is just like my opinion, dude).https://instagram.com/p/6rDerNBUeb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
territorialmillworks Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Another convert. Kinda like the difference between a VW bug and a Porsche 918. Both are imports and will get you from point A to point B. But what a ride...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hyah, I'm so going to turn my Polara into a Super Bee!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Yup, Ribbon Burners are the way to go. You on the left coast are where they got started going because of John Emmerling in Oregon. I am doing what I can on the right coast to get the word out. Come see my forge at the Alabama Blacksmithing Conference in early September (www.alaforge.org) or/and at the Quad State Roundup the 4th weekend in September. Let me know if I can help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Can you turn down the temp or is it hot as the sun all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Just like with an oxy/fuel torch you can adjust the gas/air mix for the desired temp. I have adjusted mine down for attaining and holding desired temp for hardening and typically run lower temps for general forging.Let me know if I can help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I like the tire stand as well; makes it easier to move around, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Do we know who first invented the ribbon burner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 3 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Do we know who first invented the ribbon burner? The burner on your gas range is just a different shape so I believe it's been around a LONG time. Pre Civil war? How long have gas lights been around? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 6 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Do we know who first invented the ribbon burner? So far as I know they have been around in one form or another since natural gas became operative in commercial / industrial heating. The biggest change in my life time has been the reduction in the price of refectory products. Some one could try a patent search on them. I think I saw some in the Tennessee Eastman Plant in Kingsport TN, or at least that is what they looked like to me. That would have been around '69. Gas lights were a whole different thing entirely. They didn't use methane but a nasty mix of a number of hydrocarbons. There was an article in Scientific American around 76 or so that detailed the creation of the gas light product and its composition. I think ribbon burners are a 20th century invention that got kicking after wwII although I can't prove it. By ribbon burners I think we mean fuel gas mixed with compressed air and burned with a number of out small out lets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I agree that they are probably the hottest gas forge's around, but there are other forges that get very hot. It can depend on the burner, amount of koawool, size of the chamber, etc. Why hasn't someone produced ribbon burner models for sale? To much money, to difficult, to sensitive, to hot, not forgiving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 57 minutes ago, SoCal Dave said: Why hasn't someone produced ribbon burner models for sale? To much money, to difficult, to sensitive, to hot, not forgiving? I think its more a case of : not enough money in it and too easy to make and very forgiving....:...... John Emerging saw them in his neighbor's glass blowing kiln and found out how they were made and in his generous way posted a really good "how to" I'm really impressed by and grateful for the 'sharing nature ' for the Gearhart folk(both John and his glass blowing neighbor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 2 hours ago, SoCal Dave said: I agree that they are probably the hottest gas forge's around, but there are other forges that get very hot. It can depend on the burner, amount of koawool, size of the chamber, etc. Why hasn't someone produced ribbon burner models for sale? To much money, to difficult, to sensitive, to hot, not forgiving? Merry (almost), I have a few, how many would you like? What size would you like? They come in two sizes normally, too small or too big. They are the Cats Meow. They work better with a fan/blower instead of atmospheric only (there are about 30 burners in the ribbon). Too late to get one for Christmas, but not for any other Special Day. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyScott Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 17 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Do we know who first invented the ribbon burner? Gilberson (spelling?) of Joppa Glassworks? edited to add:. I believe he patented his design. Don't know if it was an original idea, ie, 'invented'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Randy, I know that Giberson mentions them in his book, and calls his own ceramic burner heads something else. His square burner heads are a more recent innovation, though, so we need to look somewhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 In essence a "ribbon burner" is a manifold with a number of small burner nozzles fed fuel air by force. These come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. The old kitchen ovens people used to commit suicide by putting their heads in burned "brown gas" just like street lamps and the burners in the ovens were a NA inducer feeding one or more rows of pipe with small burner nozzles. I can remember as a kid getting a look inside our water heater and seeing a burner very similar to the ones in the kitchen range. NA inducer and ring with holes (nozzles.) Burner rings on top of the stove, same same. Our gas range had a pair of straight ones under the oven with the broiler below the burner. I tend to believe the term "ribbon" burner is the modern invention. The device is as old as pressurized flammable gas being used to heat stuff. Maybe casting them out of refractory with crayons or other such to form nozzles MIGHT be new but I'd be pretty surprised. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BThis Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm planning my first DIY propane tank forge this winter, and was going to build a standard venturi burner. This looks much better, and I like the idea of a quiet (or less noisy) forge, too, although adding a fan seems to complicate it a bit. But I have some questions: do ribbon burners require/use more gas than the standard Reil design and similar single-nozzle burners? What do you use for the blower? How long does the cast manifold last under pretty light occasional use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Welcome aboard B, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. How much fuel your forge uses is entirely dependent on how much you feed it. provided you're using a well tuned burner of whatever type. BTUs / second and absolute temperature is a factor of how much fuel air mix you burn per second in the chamber. How long the ribbon thingy lasts will have a lot to do with the quality of refractory you make it from. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I run my Ribbon Burner forge with 1/2# of pressure. www.PineRidgeBurners.com sells Ribbon Burners but it is much more reasonable, cost wise, to build your own. They do have some good information about Ribbon Burners on their web-site. There is an attachment on the Forge Supplies at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com that has tons of information about building a Ribbon Burner. Let me know if I can help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BThis Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Thanks Frosty, I figured out how to put my location (Dallas, TX) in the header. WayneCoeArtist... that seems very low pressure. That baffle burner must be efficient if you're successfully forging and hardening as you say. Thank you all for all the great info you're sharing on this site. I'm learning a lot, and I'm sure I'll be asking for advice. --BThis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Frosty, Agreed burners in the form of multi-holed gas manifolds have been around forever; I'm specifically after the refractory forms, including where and when cast high alumina, gave way to hardier refractory formulas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) On 8/24/2015 at 2:22 AM, 78sharpshooter said: The ribbon burner works so well that I had to keep my sunglasses on to be able to look inside the forge. Can anyone with an understanding of the light spectra produced by a gas forge comment on the safety of using sunglasses around an IR source? I have read elsewhere on this site that sunglasses both don't block IR, and that they actually enable you to open your eyes more and get higher IR exposure, making them doubly dangerous. However, I noticed that noone here appeared to be concerned about the comment above, even though some of the above commenters are demonstrated experts in gas forges. Can someone that knows the safe thing to do here please clarify when something like shade 3 or shade 5 glasses is appropriate ppe, and when (if) sunglasses are ever ok around a forge? Edited March 11, 2016 by Blue Duck Forge I want to ask about the safety of this, but I am running into an error where I cannot quote and add my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 On 1/7/2016 at 9:02 AM, Mikey98118 said: Frosty, Agreed burners in the form of multi-holed gas manifolds have been around forever; I'm specifically after the refractory forms, including where and when cast high alumina, gave way to hardier refractory formulas. You mean the molds? I don't think high alumina refractory has given way, there are others that have been around a long time, very long time. I was shopping various phosphate refractories after talking to the guys at E.J. Bartells one day. I settled on a no longer available "Pyramid, Super air set," Rammable for being concrete hard at an operating temp of 4,500f in an ammonia atmosphere. I figured if it was proof against 4,000f ammonia a little borax was beneath it's notice. It is. I still have that old forge and it still has a frozen puddle of molten iron and flux stuck in the bottom. Most of the best refractories have been around since folks started refining specialty metals and a lot of the "New" refractories are tweaked just enough from an old recipe to get a patent and have a "brand new" super duper product. Much the same thing that's turned easy to use computers into mazes of useless bells and whistles with virtually nothing useful in the new category. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Frosty, I have been frustrated by the quite disappearances of castable refractories that are use rated above 4000 F several times over the years, and am without a clue why this happens!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I don't know Mike but I haven't seen any of the old guard high temp refractories either. Pyramid has been off the market for years, I can't recall who bought them out but then they were gone too, AP Green I think. I'll have to ask the guys at E.J. Bartells next time I'm in town with a little free time. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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