Art&Fire Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hi there,I am new to this forum and I am sure, that sombody here knowes the answer to my question.My problem is....... That i need to speed up my productivity.At first it all seamed like a good idea and I did a bunch of them as needed for production parts.Now, the demand is growing beyond my little set up.How would you, create several hundreds of those in a day/week? The following pictures describe my basic proceedures.Step1The shape is pressed "cold". 2800 psi, Material is 1/2" Square Bar Step2Flare of the end. At first, i did it cold, now i am heating the material.Step 3Cutting off the access material and grind.Any suggestion is welcome.Thank youAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Welcome aboard Andy, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.What are you putting 2,800psi to to press that detail? Won't the same press form the rest closed die hot? Depending on how fast and what tonnage the press is it could press both details and shear the end in one pass.If you need two dies in the same press you could do both operations pretty quickly. Press the first feature place part in forge #2, press the second part place it in forge #2, press second feature and shear part #1 and drop it in cooling pan. The number of parts you have in play at any one time will be determined by how quickly they take heat.If you were using a closed die in a power hammer it'd be one heat and two strikes, one each in two dies in the same tooling.Show us pics of your machinery and the part when you're finished with it we'll have better input.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 First you can eliminate the cutting iff and maybe the grinding by moving the work to the end of the bar. Nect, perform the whole opperation hot and preferably in one hit. FYI 2800 pounds if press force isn't much less than 1.5 tons. Small hand presses are multiple tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 First you can eliminate the cutting iff and maybe the grinding by moving the work to the end of the bar. Nect, perform the whole opperation hot and preferably in one hit. FYI 2800 pounds if press force isn't much less than 1.5 tons. Small hand presses are multiple tons. Exactly, a lot of guys who aren't familiar think PSI is the force going into the work not pressure going to the rams. A human swinging a 5lb sledge hits much harder than 2,800psi.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senstrom Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 ram cylinder size would be my question, the pumps i use at work only put out 2800 psi but the ram cylinder they are attached to puts out 720 tons of force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senstrom Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 i cant be of much help tho because i am transfixed with your pics as to what in the world that thing is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Depending on the final function of the piece and whether you need the plain ground arced end, I would do as Arftist says and work the three slots on the end of the bar, it will spread more readily for a start. Cut it off and grind it before doing the three slot spreading...after the first stage pressing if you need to do that in the middle of the bar for any reason. You would have the advantage of the three slot end swellings and the generous rounded form on the end for free, so the plasticity of the steel and the forging process is celebrated in the form. It is denied by the cutting and grinding after the event.Frosty's suggestion of two stage tooling under press or hammer also sounds soundAn induction heater to speed up the heating?Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art&Fire Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi there,Thanks, for your comments so far. Here is another picture, so you can get a better idea.It's a rustic large picture frame. Rivet press.MOVI am not sure about the psi. My gage might be off ! It is very possible, that i have to do high quantities per week. That said, investment in new equipment is a must and I am not trying to accomplish the upcoming workload with my current equipment....so please feel free to dream up the perfect scenario. Small business scale please. I appreciate, that I can take advantage of your knowledge.I spent already a lot of money on useless equipment.Sales People try. Craftsman just know.Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Don't know where your pressure and tonnage figures came from, … but I suspect there's a discrepancy there, somewhere.Doesn't matter.If you form the end hot, … a hydraulic “Ironworker” in the 50 ton range, will be plenty of press.You already have the design for the “Rivet” Punch, … and the “Fuller” Punch for the end of the bar, can be easily ground from a standard 1” round Punch BlankMake a simple “double” Punch Holder, … and you're good-to-go.I wouldn't worry about a Trim Die, … and if necessary, you can grind the end of the piece, after it's struck.A decent, used, 50 ton hydraulic Ironworker can be had for well under $10,000.00 ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Tx: You missed the point. It doesn't make ANY difference what your gauge says if you don't know the area of your ram. 2,800psi on a 1" dia ram is JUST over 1 ton of force and that's not a lot. To design press tooling you need to know how much force your press exerts on the dies. force = psi x sq/in / 2,000. What your gauge reads is just part of the equation.Showing a pic of the detail doesn't tell us what you're wanting to make with it. The entire project might not make a lot of difference but it might. For instance knowing what it represents we may have ideas that streamline the operation in more than one way. I know that's pretty vague but you just never know.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If the rivet detail is just that…a decorative detail to make the frame appear blacksmith made…maybe you could consider making the frame by actually riveting it and cut out the welding process. Raise the integrity of the piece above pastiche level to a higher level of quality altogether…maybe add extra sparkle with copper or brass rivets if it is destined for domestic internal setting.As it is a decorative finial, making the spread on the end of a bar and leaving the undulating bulges not only will cut out the unnecessary cutting and grinding processes but enhance your "crafted" look as I described in my earlier post.Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 measure your ram diameter and someone on here will work it out for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senstrom Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 indeed fergy, we need more ram info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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