norrin_radd Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I know there are plenty of Split Cross/Fredricks Cross tutorials. But I actually had a request so I did a quick one on how I do it. I also included a template that I made to scale up or down a few sizes from 3/8" stock, thought someone might find that useful if not the video.And yes, I know I need to get that wobble out of my anvil stump. I keep forgetting about it and its aggravating me, I'm not forging anything else until I do that. Edited July 27, 2015 by norrin_radd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Well produced tutorial, thanks! I like that bandsaw for cutting the slots. I use a thin wheel on the angle grinder but the bandsaw is better. I do have a good bandsaw but it's always had wood blades in it - must investigate the steel-cutting blades.And yes, that wobbly anvil would drive you crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Well produced tutorial, thanks! I like that bandsaw for cutting the slots. I use a thin wheel on the angle grinder but the bandsaw is better. I do have a good bandsaw but it's always had wood blades in it - must investigate the steel-cutting blades.And yes, that wobbly anvil would drive you crazy!Hey, I'm glad you liked it and got something out of it. Once I got my band saw rigged up it has really become an integral tool. Funny about my anvil, I don't really notice the wobble until I see it on video. It is very solid with downward strikes, its just the lateral hits that make it move. I am going to route some feet on to the next time I go out there, maybe that will help it.Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Ausfire, does your bandsaw have speed adjustment on it? I have a wood bandsaw and it runs too fast for metal, not even soft metal will cut good on it.Thanks, norrin, for sharin that. I've never managed to get my depths just right and I believe this'll help. Edited July 28, 2015 by M Cochran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Most wood band saws can't be slowed down enough for metal cutting unless you want to do some tweaking with the drive pullies.I texture my spread crosses with a little tool I made up from a yard sale ball pein. I brought the old hammer head up to a nice bright orange and gently tapped it against my nice sharp hardy perpendicular to the eye. the hammer face and hardy are crowned so none of the shallow cuts go full width of the face. Moving and tipping it back and forth covered the entire face nicely. It is now my wood grain texturing hammer. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Most wood band saws can't be slowed down enough for metal cutting unless you want to do some tweaking with the drive pullies.Frosty The Lucky.that's why I was asking. I didn't know when I first tried but I learned real quick when I see teeth bendin over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I have a Jet HV metal cutting band saw. It has both a worm drive to the band wheels and a step pully from the motor to the worm, it's really slowed down. Scan down the part list page for a look see. example. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/jet-hvbs56m-414458-horizontal-vertical-bandsaw-parts-c-32652_32684_32697.htmlFrosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Most wood band saws can't be slowed down enough for metal cutting unless you want to do some tweaking with the drive pullies.I texture my spread crosses with a little tool I made up from a yard sale ball pein. I brought the old hammer head up to a nice bright orange and gently tapped it against my nice sharp hardy perpendicular to the eye. the hammer face and hardy are crowned so none of the shallow cuts go full width of the face. Moving and tipping it back and forth covered the entire face nicely. It is now my wood grain texturing hammer. Frosty The Lucky.Thats a good idea.Yeah my band saw is the converted cheapo portaband but it has variable speed. Ausfire, does your bandsaw have speed adjustment on it? I have a wood bandsaw and it runs too fast for metal, not even soft metal will cut good on it.Thanks, norrin, for sharin that. I've never managed to get my depths just right and I believe this'll help.No problem, glad to give back a little. I've learned alot around here, still learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Good video, lately I have been wondering how those cross are made so thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Nice, I've made somewhere close to a gazillion of these, but I still learned a couple tricks watching your video, different takes that I want to give a try the next time I'm at the anvil. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Ausfire, does your bandsaw have speed adjustment on it? I have a wood bandsaw and it runs too fast for metal, not even soft metal will cut good on it. No, it's fixed speed (and fairly quick). I guess it's meant for wood only. Oh well, just have to get more cutting discs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Good video, lately I have been wondering how those cross are made so thanks.Glad you liked it and you're welcome. They are a lot of fun to make hopefully you can give it a shot sometime.Nice, I've made somewhere close to a gazillion of these, but I still learned a couple tricks watching your video, different takes that I want to give a try the next time I'm at the anvil. Thanks!Thanks a lot, I appreciate that. Thanks for all the great feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Good Morning,A different spin on cutting Metal with a wood band saw. Friction Cutting.Take a worn out wood band saw blade, install it with the cutting teeth backwards, increase the speed to as fast as the Band Saw can go. Clean out the saw dust from inside the saw. Use EAR PROTECTION!!!!! and EYE PROTECTION!!!!This works well on thinner sheet metal. The fellow who showed me did a lot of sheet metal work, He made automobile body parts for whatever he was building.Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I've heard of that with a circular saw blade, never done it, but I dint know about it with a band saw. Be interesting to see. Edited July 29, 2015 by norrin_radd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I've heard of special purposed bandsaws for production stainless that work on this principle. I think it was in popular mechanics or something a couple years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I've cut propanel roofing with a circular saw with the blade backwards, NOISY! lots of nasty metal splinters generated, NOISY!, DANGEROUS and it was NOISY! too. OTOH my shop extension got roofed and sided... Used a saw I had pulled out of a dumpster that was OLD and used strange sized blades. After my shop extension was finished it went to the scrapyard pretty well trashed. To steal a quote about a friend "One man's trash is another man's treasure; but Terry's trash is NOBODY's Treasure!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Very clear video description, Well done.For me they would look better if you stopped working on them at 2:30-ish. If the final opening out and flattening was done with a wooden mallet the twist and modelling of the centre would be more sharply defined in the final work.By resisting the urge to flatten them completely, so that the cross beam is not taken to the same plane as the upright, the intriguing movement of the centre is celebrated and more prominent.Because your texture is very striking (sorry ) that takes the visual priority for me, and the impact of the central "twist" is reduced to the (albeit lovely) silhouette form of the curved diamond.Coincidently I posted a photo of a hot chiselled one of these by Christoph Friedrich on another thread a day or so ago, you may be interested to compare the differences.Alanp.s. Ah... I just went to get a link to the other thread I mentioned and I see you have already seen and appreciated Christoph's version The Original Christoph Friedrich's Split Cross I seem to remember his took him a good part of a morning demonstration. With your band sawn system's speed and efficiency and my "less is more" attitude you should get them made in less than half the time! Of course my opinion is worth what you paid for it as they say! You know your market better than me. Lay people may well appreciate the strong texture over the nicety of the unfolding process... But then again if you wanted to just sell 'em you would get them stamped or cast!Alan Edited July 29, 2015 by Alan Evans added link and further comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Thanks, I really do appreciate you comment, and your opinion.That's funny because this has actually been on my mind this morning.When I was shown how to make these it was basically just beginner project, which I am still to this day, a beginner. And I would not insult anyone here by calling myself a blacksmith. I'm just here to have a good time. Also I did not know the story behind the original product that you mentioned in your post. Which I think is a cool story and the fact that You can just pop in there for lunch was not lost on me. I always thought it had something to with a "Saint Friedrich", go figure. But your post has really got me wanting to try to make some like the original, sweeping niceties and all so I thank you for that. Not that I'll ever be able to produce such works of art, but it will be fun to try one day.As for just wanting to sell them, that has very little to do with it. I made a bunch of these with my family as a way to work/learn together, there was more to it than just the Crosses. We did put some up for sale (underpriced), just so my adolescent kids might earn a little money. We gave almost all of them away.Where I come from there's a saying, "I'm just going to have tell how the cow ate the cabbage" (fancy way of saying " to be honest with you") no malice intended either, seriously.The Cross I made in the video appeals to Me, for what it means to Me, it's not supposed to be pretty.There's only a few marks on it that really matter. In the immortal words of Forrest Gump:"That's all I have to say, about that."Again, I mean no offense, I do appreciate the discussion. Edited July 29, 2015 by norrin_radd For redneck interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I make these because they are a nice quick demo people can watch. With the blanks already prepped, it doesn't take long to turn a "stick" of metal into something completely different and recognizable. I find most people who stop and watch have a limited attention span. They want to see something created in 5 minutes or so or they loose interest. A cute story on these. Last year I had a young lady ( 22 or so) who works at the Grange Fair and had seen me demo in the past and asked if she could try. I pulled out a couple of split cross blanks and showed her how to open it up and texture one. Then handed her a prepped blank and let her do one. That pretty much finished off the last of my pre prepped blanks I had that day. I had a couple of young boys who were hanging around watching and pestering me to try. So I marked out another blank, and handed one of the biggest "pests" my hacksaw and pointed him at my post vise and said "have at it". I let him struggle away with the hack saw for a half hour or so, and I finally had mercy on him and finished the last two cuts with my portaband after I got it out of the truck and ran an extension cord for power from a near by trailer. Then he went and forged it out. At that point I was pretty my done for the day when a young 8-10 year old girl asked if she could make one. As the fire was pretty much out at the time and I had most of my stuff packed up, I told her I was sorry I didn't have any left for her to work on, but she could have the one I made earlier if she wanted, and if she was coming back the next day, I'd make sure I had a blank ready for her to work with. She went from being really disappointed to being tickled to death and went off to show her friends her new cross. Just as I was about to leave she comes back and asks if I want the cross back. Her dads with her and I guess he didn't understand I'd given it to her. I told her I'd given it to her and it was hers, and repeated that if she wanted to make her own, that if she came back tomorrow and it was fine with her parents, I'd have the blank for her to work with. I think dad was surprised some one would just give something like this away to a kid who asked and offered to pay me for it. I told him I was happy to give it to her as she showed a real interest in what I'd been doing all day. Turns out shes the younger sister of one of the older kids in the 4-H pig club I help out with, as dad came by later when I was up at the pig auction to thank me again for the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I've never tried these. And have what very well could be a dumb question.Anyway, the tutorial above uses Material that is nominally the same size either round or square (example 1/2"x1/2", 3/8"x3/8", Etc.)My question is can these be made with material that isn't nominally the same size? stock that has a more rectangular cross section.Or would that just not look right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrin_radd Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) That's how I learned about these. Great story too, 4-H is a good program.I've never tried these. And have what very well could be a dumb question.Anyway, the tutorial above uses Material that is nominally the same size either round or square (example 1/2"x1/2", 3/8"x3/8", Etc.)My question is can these be made with material that isn't nominally the same size? stock that has a more rectangular cross section.Or would that just not look right?I have thought about this too, but I'm not sure. I wondered if you could put a 90 degree twist in the middle first, get the ends long ways perpendicular to one another, then split it? Might be worth a try. Edited July 29, 2015 by norrin_radd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaleh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Take some clay and play around and see what they would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 If you twisted before you cut, I would suggest a wooden "anvil", or a 2*4 to cover the face. That way the twisted faces can be hammered into the wood without marring it up. A wooden "thwacker" is a handy thing to have for this sort of thing too, although I wouldn't suggest a nice wooden mallet. A hardwood scrap, or even pine, 2*4 with a handle carved out of it works well and is easy to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Snip... although I wouldn't suggest a nice wooden mallet...snipWhy wooden you? A very honourable use for one. Though maybe you have a point. My old one exploded a couple of months ago and I still have not got around to giving it its third gluing up in thirty years. It has done a lot of bruise-free straightening in its life however. Virtually every poker shovel and etc. fire tools I made in the early days were straightened by it, and it had worm holes then!Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 convenient piece of firewood, old baseball bat or bowling pin. I have an old rawhide mallet I use as my "stinky hammer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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