SReynolds Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I was given a number of 3/8 round assorted lengths stock. The fellow donated them to me and has no idea what it is. He had these in the garage for some time.When I heat them to orange (about 1750°) they crack and break off. The crack is very crystalline in appearance,.What could this be? Any ideas? Must be high carbon in nature, but even at that, it wouldn't break apart when heated to forge temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Could be lots of things. Try heating it to white heat, if it works then it is likely wrought iron. Otherwise do a spark test to determine carbon content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I've never run into hot short material, but I've read in old books that it breaks at forging temps. I don't remember if that is while forging, or if itmcan just break off in the fire like that. I have run into silicon bronze that was overstressed on a lathe (too heavy of a cut). When we tried to anneal it, every now and then, a crack would find its way through and you'd only pull half a piece out of the fire. The other end would'nt even move. Without knowing what you're working with it is hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I've never run into hot short material, but I've read in old books that it breaks at forging temps. I don't remember if that is while forging, or if itmcan just break off in the fire like that. I have run into silicon bronze that was overstressed on a lathe (too heavy of a cut). When we tried to anneal it, every now and then, a crack would find its way through and you'd only pull half a piece out of the fire. The other end would'nt even move. Without knowing what you're working with it is hard to tell.Guessing you never forged wrought iron. As to the silly bronze, yes, get it too hot and it breaks off from it's own weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Some of the high alloy steels will "cottage cheese" at high temps; eg: H13 and will need to be forged cooler, low orange and not high. Cast iron cottage cheeses too and at lower temperatures. Wrought iron generally loves high temps and will gladly work at temps where modern steels are burning like a sparkler. However too much sulfur in it will make it hot short like too much phosphorus makes it cold short. In general wrought iron will "fray" if worked too coldNote that the high alloy steels can be GREAT for tooling like slitters and punches! Edited July 17, 2015 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 can't get it that hot(white)........... it won't survive orange.It won't spark any more than mild steel on the grinder wheel and a hack saw cuts it easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I guess we can assume it is magnetic? That would tell you quickly whether ferrous based or not.There are not many iron/steel products that fail at such low temp - although cast iron will come apart if struck when hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If it's magnetic I'd GUESS it might be a free machining steel containing a % of lead. I don't know about forging but some free machining steels aren't good for welding, not counting the dangerous fumes.Have you tried forging it cold?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 very much magnetic.I have done nothing with it cold. It forges at red heat. Cracks badly above that. Not breaking off; but a crack so bad it breaks off with one bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 As Frosty said, leaded steels don't like to be forged or hot-worked (or welded). Does it only fail when worked or does it come to pieces if just heated and allowed to cool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 As soon as it is heated to orange it literally breaks. No chance to forge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 See if you have a materials lab around that you can call, or email. A mass spectrometer would tell you what is in it.I would try some experiments.. Heat to nonmagnetic, and quench in water - does it get hard, tough, crack? Break test, bend test, etc...We had some 1/2" dia. steel we got at a local welding shop years ago for some u-bolts we needed to make. They would bend fine cold, but would crack when heated to red with a torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 See if you have a materials lab around that you can call, or email. A mass spectrometer would tell you what is in it.I would try some experiments.. Heat to nonmagnetic, and quench in water - does it get hard, tough, crack? Break test, bend test, etc...We had some 1/2" dia. steel we got at a local welding shop years ago for some u-bolts we needed to make. They would bend fine cold, but would crack when heated to red with a torch.I don't think he can get it to non magnetic... he posts that it breaks if he hears it to orange.As soon as it is heated to orange it literally breaks. No chance to forge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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