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Posted

So, I've tried searching on the forum and online in regards to anvil material but nothing comes up. Has there even been alternative materials used for anvils? Like perhaps... chromium or harded titanium, heck even tungsten (i know its brittle just using as an example). I ask because i see all these posts about rebound and sound plus less work etc etc. 

Posted

At $39.50 a pound Ti would be expensive. Plus Ti is tough, not hard. 

Iron is cheap compared to anything you have mentioned. It is also heavier than say Ti by a long shot. Easy to work with. Plentiful. Takes the pounding.

 

Now there is a farrier anvil that has an aluminum body with a tool steel top whose main objective was portability.

Since I have several hundred pounds of Ti I have thought about a Ti anvil with a steel top plate. But trying to convince Timet in Henderson to cast it for me might be a long shot......

Posted

Thanks Charles.

Now, for some usable information; Typical anvil construction is wrought iron (almost pure iron) with a hardened (not case hardened) tool steel top. 

Case hardening is applied to soft steel through carbon uptake (slow heating in a carbon rich atmosphere provided by various means). 

Dodge's mild steel anvil would be a good candidate for case hardening, tool steel is not.

This was typical construction method for centuries. 

First massive improvement was the use of cast iron bodies welded to tool steel top plates. (see Fisher)

Next was the use of tool steel top half as opposed to only tool steel top plate (see Hay Budden)

Finally the state of the art today, entire anvils cast from high alloy tool steel, (see Nimba, Rat hole, etc.)

Note that I use the earlier version Hay Budden, as mentioned above, wrought iron w/tool steel top as well as a Fisher. 

Many other professional blacksmiths do as well. 

Posted

I'm wondering if post size isn't a large factor in being forbidden, I'm getting frustrated writing for half an hour to have it bounced and deleted. If this one goes through I'll be officially ticked.

I'll write a reply again later once I cool down. :angry:

Frosty The Lucky.

Posted

I'm not sure it's size, but time related Frosty. I've had short posts bounced when I had to stop and take a call, or dig thru my hard drive looking for picts. I'm starting to try and remember to copy everything I type so if it gets bounced, I can just paste and try again.

Posted (edited)

Three thoughts on that, Artiftist. It is a rather open ended question, "One who ignores history is bound to repeat its mistakes", and last but least, this is a historical document that is being, and will be read by more than just Nightmarejt. If my admitedly poor atempt at humor answers some ones question, or opens their thinking about "anvil materials" then my post is valid. 

Now to adress the original question more directly, any material that is harder than the material being forged and will withstand the heat and impact (a large block of glass may not be aproriat). Furthor more it needs to have significant mass and not absorb significant amounts of impact energy (a ruber block). I assume some of the "rocketscientists" and "metalergists" will chime in as to the viability if somthing such as metalic ceramic carbides or spent uranium. 

Now as to affordability it is hard to beat steel, even tool steels such as H11 are not unafordable. If you want to be different a chunk of aluminum bronse might be the ticket, tho like everything it has its drawbacks. 

Edited by Charles R. Stevens
Posted

tried so many times to answer this one I'm thinking of giving up the forum

I'm hitting a post length point it's likely to be forbidden so I'm saving it before trying to post. that way if it's Forbidden I can submit the whole reply WITH my REPORT! Let admin post it. Why give up on the forum when you can transfer your frustration to Admin? What fun would that be, hmmmm? ;)

My most recent reply to this thread's been forbidden so I'm breaking it up.

 On topic. Forget trying to figure out what the best anvil alloy is, you'll need degrees in Metallurgy and engineering, what branch(s) of engineering I don't know but you'll need them. Ti anvil? You gotta be kidding, sure Titanium is almost as versatile as iron but good grief an alloy hard enough to be an anvil would one of the rocket engine alloys and casting it is rocket science foundry style. I'm sure you could have one made but you'd be looking at hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars. Just casting titanium is incredibly difficult, expensive and has a high failure rate. Well used to anyway.

Tungsten is an anti abrasive and has absolutely zero use in an anvil. None at all.

Chrome is an ingredient in most modern alloys requiring inherent hardness and wear resistance, it's common no sweat.  Forget the other stuff, you aren't a metallurgist. If you want to buy up to date anvil alloys buy a new anvil, Nimba is top notch, Rathole?, Oh I'm blanking out but there are a number of top notch made in America anvils available right now. Why not go to Home Depot and order a Peddinghaus? Refflinghaus is top notch too. Etc. etc. They've had professional metallurgists, engineers and blacksmiths upgrading the alloys for a long LONG time, at least a century.

If you're looking for a field expedient anvil, try a machine shop that caters to heavy machinery or factories, or heavy equipment repair shops. They'll have 4140 shafting if you're lucky and they like you you might find a drop of say 4" 4140 shaft around 30" long. Stand it on end and you're golden, just go to work with it.

I'm pretty sure Thomas was going to recommend probably one of the most outstanding field expedient anvils going a broken fork lift tine. They're typically 4140 and plenty large for an anvil. (forgot to tell you, 4140 is Chrome Molly with 40 pts. of carbon. It's tough work harden resistant and has enough carbon to hardend)

Frosty The Lucky.

Posted (edited)

Please do not do  that TP.!

I have faith that Glenn will work out a sallution. After the last fiasco I imagine changing hosting companies is not high on his list of solutions to try. 

Besides seriously missing your impute personaly. the comunity would also lose your knoledge and experiance. 

Edited by Charles R. Stevens
Posted

I'm hitting a post length point it's likely to be forbidden so I'm saving it before trying to post. that way if it's Forbidden I can submit the whole reply WITH my REPORT! Let admin post it. Why give up on the forum when you can transfer your frustration to Admin? What fun would that be, hmmmm? ;)

My most recent reply to this thread's been forbidden so I'm breaking it up.

 On topic. Forget trying to figure out what the best anvil alloy is, you'll need degrees in Metallurgy and engineering, what branch(s) of engineering I don't know but you'll need them. Ti anvil? You gotta be kidding, sure Titanium is almost as versatile as iron but good grief an alloy hard enough to be an anvil would one of the rocket engine alloys and casting it is rocket science foundry style. I'm sure you could have one made but you'd be looking at hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars. Just casting titanium is incredibly difficult, expensive and has a high failure rate. Well used to anyway.

Tungsten is an anti abrasive and has absolutely zero use in an anvil. None at all.

Chrome is an ingredient in most modern alloys requiring inherent hardness and wear resistance, it's common no sweat.  Forget the other stuff, you aren't a metallurgist. If you want to buy up to date anvil alloys buy a new anvil, Nimba is top notch, Rathole?, Oh I'm blanking out but there are a number of top notch made in America anvils available right now. Why not go to Home Depot and order a Peddinghaus? Refflinghaus is top notch too. Etc. etc. They've had professional metallurgists, engineers and blacksmiths upgrading the alloys for a long LONG time, at least a century.

If you're looking for a field expedient anvil, try a machine shop that caters to heavy machinery or factories, or heavy equipment repair shops. They'll have 4140 shafting if you're lucky and they like you you might find a drop of say 4" 4140 shaft around 30" long. Stand it on end and you're golden, just go to work with it.

I'm pretty sure Thomas was going to recommend probably one of the most outstanding field expedient anvils going a broken fork lift tine. They're typically 4140 and plenty large for an anvil. (forgot to tell you, 4140 is Chrome Molly with 40 pts. of carbon. It's tough work harden resistant and has enough carbon to hardend)

Frosty The Lucky.

Ratholes are now known as Fontanini Anvil and Tool.

Google up their site, they are cast from 100% H-13, available in a 280# version as well as a 460# version and appear to be based upon a south-German pattern. 

Posted

Three thoughts on that, Artiftist. It is a rather open ended question, "One who ignores history is bound to repeat its mistakes", and last but least, this is a historical document that is being, and will be read by more than just Nightmarejt. If my admitedly poor atempt at humor answers some ones question, or opens their thinking about "anvil materials" then my post is valid. 

Now to adress the original question more directly, any material that is harder than the material being forged and will withstand the heat and impact (a large block of glass may not be aproriat). Furthor more it needs to have significant mass and not absorb significant amounts of impact energy (a ruber block). I assume some of the "rocketscientists" and "metalergists" will chime in as to the viability if somthing such as metalic ceramic carbides or spent uranium. 

Now as to affordability it is hard to beat steel, even tool steels such as H11 are not unafordable. If you want to be different a chunk of aluminum bronse might be the ticket, tho like everything it has its drawbacks. 

Charles, no offense meant. 

I suppose I should not attempt humor at all on this forum. My humor is very dry and not noticed half the time even in person and as Glen recently pointed out, much humor does not translate well.  On the other hand, I am probably just not funny. 

Posted

Then good sir, be on notice that I will shift you from the "not so sure" column to the "a good guy/gal" column. I apretiate dry humer, so unless you say otherwise I will take you as equal parts serius and good natured ribing. 

Posted

Don't worry Arftist, lots of us think you're pretty funny. We just didn't realize you were joking.  :P

All joking aside, we don't have to agree to be friends and heck don't have to be friends or even like each other to learn great quantities from each other. S'all good. Heck, I prefer talking to folk who disagree there's much more to learn.

Let the smack talk resume!

Frosty The Lucky.

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