How do I make a hardy Hole in a home made anvil?

[markknx]

I am making my first anvil from a piece of RR track. I want to add a hardy hole and trying to think of the best way to do it. I can drill it to size, could I then heat it and drive a square punch in. or is there a better way? Any Ideas on a good size I have seen them in 3/4 and 1". the round hole should be no issue. I am new to Blacksmithing, but not to metal working. Any help will be appreciated.
mark

[Quarry Dog]

Easiest way I can think of is a #5 tip on a journeyman torch.  Definitely not the best of results, but definitely easy, at least if you have a steady hand and a good strong piercing jet.

[Smithy.Travis]

I've seen them elsewhere but I can't for the life of me remember where.They make a pre made hardy hole that drops into a predrilled hole. So, you'll drill say an inch wide hole so you can drop in an inch wide piece of steel with a square hardy hole in the middle. Ad ten you just tack the "insert" onto your piece of rr track. I remember them being around 45 dollars.

[Frosty]

Make one from 1" heavy section angle iron and weld two pieces together to make the "hole". Then weld it to something other than the rail. The hardy hole doesn't need to be in the anvil, that's an urban myth. Heck just find a good piece of heavy wall 1" ID square pipe and put a spike on it so you can drive it in a wood block. I like my post vise for all but a couple bottom tools the hardy being one.

You could just sharpen the web on the rail and use it for the hardy. So what if you have to swing the hammer sideways so long as it cuts. Right?

Frosty The Lucky.

[alextynan]

I don't know what machinery you have, but I cut my rr track in two along where I wanted one edge of the Hardie hole. Put it in a mill and used a 25mm cutter to cut a slot, then welded the two pieces back together. It worked, but it definitely wasn't worth the effort.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Drill the corners at 3/16 inch (for a 1" hardy) then drill the centrr out for 1", now forge a "morticing" chisel from a peice of stock ( one angle lang and thick as or thicker than it is wide. Use this to clean out the hole untile  3/4 inch wide file will fit. A drift can certainly be used, as can a broach (a taperd file that has a finished demition of your finished hole and can be driven in to the pre drilled hole to clean it out. But Im with Frosty, 1" ID heavy wall with a short peice that will fit around it as a coller. As a "tool holder" works better. 

[pjh66]

easiest way I know is fabricate a square hole with flat bar weld together machine the outside round to a size like 1 3/4" drill hole of that size punch in weld top & bottom

 

[Crantius]

Does your RR track anvil already have a (pritchel) hole? Assuming you'll be going to make your bottom tools yourself you can put indexing tabs that go over the sides of the anvil on them, no need for a square hole. Another option would be a hybrid hole with a square taper at the top - some peddinghaus anvils have those along with a smaller pritchel hole.

Otherwise go with what Frosty said. It's just a RR anvil... you'll probably want to get something better in time.

Here's a thread on the topic: http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/41257-square-hardy-in-round-anvil-hole/

[ThomasPowers]

TOTALLY DEPENDS ON YOUR TOOLS AND SKILLS---which you have not mentioned.  So EDM it!  Or mill a slot in the heel and weld a cap to the end to close it off.

Have you annealed  the rail?  Is it very work hardened or "fresh"?  Most rail isn't very wide and so a 3/4 Hardy hole might be a better choice than 1"

[markknx]

Thanks guys for all the ideas, all were good but I think my tunnel vision on the fact that most anvils have a hardy hole caused me to miss the obvious solution of holding them in a vice. as once I get back to work and money is available yes I may buy a better anvil, I will also be looking for a post vice. Square tube also a great idea. I had thought of a weld in plug. I also am considering adding some plate to the top to create a step at the horn. But all I have is A36 plate (hot rolled low carbon, Think structural Steel) not sure if that will be hard enough to hold up.

Crantius, great Idea in the index tab. And thanks for the link.

Mark

[the iron dwarf]

I have a block of metal about 3" by 4" and and 1" thick, it has a square hole about 1 1/4" in it, dont know if it is cast or forged yet but will test it tomorrow and get pix.

it is one of the less common parts I have seen on rail

[the iron dwarf]

turned out to be cast so no good

[odblacksmith]

another good option might be to take a 3/4'' drive socket, drill a round hole in your track slip the socket in the hole then weld it up.that would depend on if you have a welder or not so...just another idea.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Use the rail as is, don't weld a top plate on it. You would be better off welding a plate on the end, and standing the rail up on end to get all of the mass under the hammer.

[j.w.s.]

Broaching would be the correct way, but I like Frosty's idea.. it's a RR track, don't waste your effort,  unless you really want the challenge. 

J

[markknx]

OK so this is what I have too start. I think I can get by with this. What do you guys think?

Mark

[ThomasPowers]

I think you should spend more time hammering hot steel and less worrying about your anvil.

[markknx]

I think you should spend more time hammering hot steel and less worrying about your anvil.

​Well I was under the impression that I might need some thing to hammer on, not being a smith I most have just got that part wrong. I know I could have used a rock but I could not find one big/hard enough.

None the less I did get some time in hammering some hot steel so I get good enough to make some tongs so I stop dropping my work.

Mark

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Oh, I think he will fit in just fine here! Sarcastic come back with out having a temper tantrum! Lol. 

I think that TP (in his own loving way) was refering to the fact that you have put in a lot of time and effort carving a london patern anvil out of a chunck of rail, when you could have easaly put it to work, either verticaly or horizontaly as it was originaly. That time may have been beter invested in forging tongs, lol.

one might consider a mounting that alows you to use it both ways, as the end of the heal would be good for persuading heaver stock with "love taps" wile the time invested in the horn wont go to waist. 

No harm, I feel the same way about brake drum forges.  

[markknx]

Charles, yeah I have a habit going a little over board when it comes to setting up equipment. Yes as I saw I could have done those things, but I wanted to go this way.A duel mounting  sound like a idea for me to think on. but the next step is to make some tongs. I don't mind the dropping of the part but I can't seem to pick the heat up with it.

I sure butchered my first attempt at a Square hole, lesson learned. seems I made the slit to big.Thinking it should be about the same as the corner to corner of the square. Well I have time to learn. I shall get better a few thousand more swings of the hammer and I may get pointing down.

Mark

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Your in good company

[Frosty]

Grind a radius on the heal of your anvil so you can isolate the material for the jaws and hinge bolster on tongs without causing a cold shut like a sharp edge will.

Naw, don't weld a plate on the rail it actually reduces it's efficiency unless you can come up with some good thick high carbon plate. I'll have to dig out some rail I have and make a pictorial tutorial of how to make a heavy anvil with a flat face and two horns without all the grinding. Oh sure there's plenty but not as much as you've invested.

It sure looks good though, I'd put it on my bench and use it would've put it to work before now you betcha.

It'll serve you as long as you want to forge iron. You'll know when it's finished, you'll be done with it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Can I hold you to that, Frosty?! 

[markknx]

Frosty will do. Yeah I noticed on the leaf  I tried to make that I cut just a tad to deep and sharp

Thanks again guys

Mark

[Frosty]

Uh sure you can hold me to IT Charles so long as IT is a dinner table or soft curvy and smells like a girl. <grin> Rail anvil how to, okay. I'll just need to remember.

You bet Mark, those sharp inside angles are the birthplace of cold shuts and the main reason we radius edges. After a while things like that catch your eye without even trying.

Frosty The Lucky.