jacob's hammer

Frosty's T-Burner

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Having trouble finding plans for Frosty's T-Burner. Looked this site over pretty good and thought I found something I could use in older post but was unable to open attachment. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

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The key is having the propane in the EXACT center of the pipe.

I found it best to put the pipe into the T-fitting, chuck it up in a lathe. Drill and Tap in the same set-up, without taking it out of center!!

Neil

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thanks Neil. I wish I had set up to make exact. I don't. I have good cordless drill and feel fairly confident I can make good jig for it. It may be trial error thing there.

This is for freon tank size forge. Will .035" tip still be ideal or should I scale down? If so, how? I know his design based on ratio so change tip probably changes everything. I mostly see this burner with propane tank and brick forges. Thanks.

Edited by jacob's hammer

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Jacob,

 

   Here is some info that Frosty gave me last week that filled in a few blanks for me.  if you are using 3/4" pipe then D=.75 The end of you mig tip should be 1/2D (.375) away from the entrance of your mixing tube, and your mixing tube should be 6-7 x D (4-1/2-5-1/4")long.

 

I think this is a good starting point and I hope Frosty chimes in.

 

Russell

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thanks Russell. Then tip wouldn't be fix if this burner is too much of an animal for this size forge. I will just build burner to the specs, then if change needed, it will be forge.

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Try google, "T-burner" "Jerry Frost" "verriable volume forge" or any combination of that. Often image serch will cut threw the clutter.

Gives you a running start when Frosty chimes in to help. Also use google site serch, as the IFI search engine isn't as user friendly for the tech chalaged. 

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A technique I thought about but never TESTED for getting the hole and tap centered in the T without a drill press follows. Be aware I haven't even tried this but believe I could get it to work. Okay here's the concept. Take the nipple you're going to use for the burner to the tool store and find a hole saw that fits the ID smoothly without binding. And one long drill bit the correct diameter for the tap

To use it screw a nipple short enough you can reach the inside of the T with the longer drill bit. And that's it, the possibly sacrificial hole saw is not your alignment jig to aim the drill straight down the burner tube.

It's even possible if you find a hole saw with a hex nut on the back, I have a couple but don't recall where I got them let alone the brand. Then a buy could put a tap in the hole saw where the pilot bit goes and use the hole saw as an alignment jig to tap the hole. This will ONLY work if it's NOT a tapered pipe thread. If you're using a pipe fitting from the outside you MUST tap it from the OUTSIDE or it won't work.

Before you guys try getting the brass pipe fitting I've been talking about for a couple years to work, switch to using a 1/8" scd. 80 pipe nipple and modify it like we've been talking about recently. It'll be a lot easier to do AND easily tunable.

Faster, easier and BETTER are all highly desirable features to a blacksmith. It's the mantra of the pro blacksmith.

I'm in the process of refining the methods I use and putting an instructional or BP together on these things. Then we can maybe delete the old drawings, they're harder and not so good and should be replaced.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks much Frosty. I will try the sacrificial hole saw as my jig. Better idea than what I had in mind.

I've learned quite a bit since posting this this morning. I also found discussion, thanks to Charles search tips, where you give info on converting to 1/2" bore if it should come to that.

I'm getting pretty excited about getting this built but I want to learn some more yet first. 

eta: another question I have is about the coupler as the flare. does coupler work just as good? Would it be better to make flare to house the burner? Again, thanks.

Edited by jacob's hammer

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Jerry, would you recomend 1/2 fine or corse for the outside of the jet holder? My thought is that fine gives you more threads in the thin portion of the "T" but as I haven tried it yet and havent varified the OD is big enugh to suport the shallower threads...

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The one that is the same TPI as the tapered pipe thread to make chasing it up the nipple easier. The lock nut is what trues the jet assembly up, the pipe T is too thin to keep it from wobbling at least a little. One of the guys in our club welded a nut to the T instead of tapping it and uses a lock nut.

I don't recall what the TPI of a tapered pipe thread is but I'll include the correct tap to make it easy in the blue print.

Intuitively fine thread makes sense for finer control tuning but tuning isn't that critical. Of course if I had anything close to fine control tuning I might have four burners that can melt fire brick instead of one. right now I tune by removing the mig tip and sanding a bit off, cleaning the burr with a torch tip file and seeing how it burns.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I was thinking about your schedual 80 modification, and that SAE fine thread would give you more threads in the "T" i have considerd using a "+" and a plug, but I seem to remember you were using a reducing "T"

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I tried a cross but couldn't get it to work and went back to what did. As I recall 1/8" FPT and 1/2" fine or coarse have the same TPI. Making it pretty easy to chase a bushing reducer from 1/8" FPT  to use 1/2" x ? so the pipe nipple, threaded to length would work. That would probably be a lot simpler than drilling and tapping a pipe T. Chasing doesn't require a lot of skill to keep straight. I've always been just plain miserable at hand tapping straight, that's why I came up with tricks to compensate. Having a lathe just doesn't motivate a guy to develop certain hand skills you know.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Lord knows I use the drill press to start taps when I can, lol and I simply never use the little chuck style tap wrenches (i just dont ever get them strait that way!!) 

wunder what was the issue with a "+", think it was turbulance? 

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Lord knows I use the drill press to start taps when I can, lol and I simply never use the little chuck style tap wrenches (i just dont ever get them strait that way!!) 

wunder what was the issue with a "+", think it was turbulance? 

​I don't know why I couldn't get a + to work but I was just figuring the things out and never tried again. The thing should work better, the larger space behind the jet should make for a larger low pressure zone and increase draw. I should take another slash at a + burner I think I know enough to make it work. I mean, heck it's only been maybe 30 years of playing with the things?

Oh great another thing to add to my wanna do list. <grin>

Frosty The Lucky.

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Oh great another thing to add to my wanna do list. <grin>

Frosty The Lucky.

You know you love it! Tinkerers always love enigmas and conundrums. The 'I wonder if ____ will work' captivates us and the 'nope, that way won't work' is even somewhat satisfying, though it usually triggers another of the prior. But the euphoric sensation of 'Yes! It works.' is ambrosia to our souls.

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I did a little measuring of the threads of the Tweeco mig tip that I have and while 1/4-28TPI works,Has worked,And will continue to work, I think the actual thread is a metric M6x1.  I have one of these taps around the shop somewhere and will post results when I try it, I think it may hold the tip more centered.

By my measurments the threads are.010 undersize for 1/4-28 UNF

 

Russell

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Russel: These things are changing all the time. I still have the bag of mig contact tips I bought 25+ years ago so it doesn't surprise me the new ones are something else. This is why I suggest getting the drill bit and tap at the welding supply that carries the mig tips. It's not unusual for a mig gun to take damage, say it gets dropped and lands on the contact tip. The threads need chasing, it's regular maintenance and I have a bit and tap in my welding tool box with new cups, mig tips, anti spatter spray, the wrenches that fit the tip, gas hose, etc. the new drive rolls are taped to the inside of the welder with the wrench to change them. The stuff is like carrying a spare tire on a junk yard crummy. (ratty old pickup truck that will never leave the yard unless crushed into a cube.)

The welding supply WILL have the correct taps, dies even and drill bits. Most guys just toss a buggered tip rather than try chasing the threads but sometimes it's your last tip and you don't want to knock off long enough to drive to the supplier for a new bag.

Thanks for this point, I need to be clear about where to get the tools instead of just repeating things that USED to be.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thought that and lazyness defined "old" Jerry. I relise the tree did a pretty good job of hitting the reset button (spent years trying to find it on my daughters) but isnt it about time yiu start acting your age?! 

As always, with love and the greatest of respect

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I'm sure both Metric- and inch-threaded MIG contact tips are available. I think Tweco list both 1/4"-28 and M6 x 1.0 in the 14T-series.

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Got burner built. Worked well with holesaw as jig. Bought 30psi regulator at HomeDept with 3/8" hp hose. What connections best get me from regulator to compression fitting on burner? thanks.

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Are you planning on using the rubber hose to the burner or a copper line? I like copper as it's not sensitive to heat but lots of guys plumb then directly to the hose. You might find yourself at the plumbing supply with the burner, hose and a list of questions to ask the pro. That's how I do it if I'm doing anything differently than I have been.

I'd rather the guys at the supply think I'm a bit daft than take a chance with propane leaks. By now though the guys at the HAVC supply up the road don't bat an eye when I walk in.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I did buy a bayou classic 1-30psi. It has 3/8 hose w/flare fitting.

I want to keep copper line that I had when I tested it with low pressure regulator and I now see that I can get a Mr. Heater(says 0-60?) high pressure regulator with 1/4" output at Mennards fr 20 bucks. Anybody use these? thanks again. I'm getting there.

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