Swinging a striking hammer, rail road swing

[Glenn]

Many strikers use the traditional swing of a striker. I have seen others use a sledge hammer swing as they can control and aim the hammer.

What I have not seen is strikers using the continuous circular motion or the "windmill" spiking technique the rail road spike drivers use? It would seem that a couple spike drivers working together as strikers, could move a LOT of metal real fast using that technique.

The hammer typically weighs from 8 to 12 pounds. It is common practice in many locales to cut down the long handle to about 28 inches. This makes the maul more convenient when used only to "set" spikes for a powered spiker. It also makes the "windmill" spiking technique more comfortable. Windmilling is when a user grabs the maul handle with both hands locked and strikes the spike with repeated fast blows by swinging in a circular motion over the shoulder.

Has anyone seen or tried  the "windmill" spiking technique as a striker? 

 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Glenn

[Dan P.]

I've always called the big sledge hammers that are weighted very much to one side "swing sledges" and the equal sided or smaller ones "rapping hammers", the former being for forging and the latter for striking tools. I don't know where I picked up those terms, but when using two strikers with swing sledges, they do have the effect of falling to the side (getting out of the way) after striking, and their long offset heads seem to give better clearance to better avoid "hammer clash" when using strikers. 

As far as swinging the things around, I don't know if there is the need and thus the skill level to see this done these days, but I believe you will see something like it in those old videos on anchor making. 

 

[Quarry Dog]

  I was just thinking about that anchor making video. If that isn't windmilling, I don't know what is.  It seems to me their is also a old time video of some smiths welding about a 12in by 6in by 10ft ring for a steam engine, using similar methods.

[Ethan the blacksmith]

well, that's the method we use for pounding posts in if there is no machinery. I have tried the windmill technique striking and it works well, however I don't use it because it takes to much time. I could see two strikers doing it though...

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Someone posted a video awhile back of that technique being used. I remember it got some comments because one of the strikers was the wife of the smith. And yes, metal moved fast.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I have seen many people teach new strikers to use just a half stroke with one hand in the middle and one at the bottom of the handle. That is fine for light hitting. I swing from a standing position with both hands near the bottom. But that is a 25# hammer. The hammers where they use a windmill swing are in the 6-10# range with a long handle. As some once said "I feel the earth move under my feet". Being accurate comes with practice.

[Quarry Dog]

Just hope you don't have to stop it in a hurry.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Redirect, its like driving fast. Breaks are not your friend

[Matthew Paul]

The one guy that strikes for me on occasion, swings like that with a 6# head on a 24" handle. I sure wouldn't do that with someone that I did not trust though.

[ianinsa]

Francis, it looks like those chicken wings on the BBQ are getting scorched(ok done Cajun style)

[Glenn]

I sure wouldn't do that with someone that I did not trust though.

​I would not nod my head even with someone I trusted. (grin) It is an old blacksmith joke.

You MUST trust a striker, and know that the striker can hit where he aims with each swing. The style of swing is something you both work out as to what works best. Start with slow and deliberate and work up from there.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Glenn

[Francis Trez Cole]

ianinsa no wings just thought why re create the wheel I just put the forge in an old grill did not have to  make the legs. The plus side after a demo put it in the back of the truck and close the top. all the coke and coal stays put. The Guy working with me trust me. I do not miss. I have even driven drifts into a hammer blank with any fear. At FABA meeting I get called to strike often. At the carnival I ring the bell all the time. 

[norrin_radd]

In this video (may be the one Dan P. was referring to) there you can see a striker in the background, is that "wind milling" ?

 

[Quarry Dog]

That's the video I was referring to.  I was wrong though, not the best example of "full extension" windmilling, although they are going up over their heads with it, or off to the side.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k_LA_R4ifYk 

I'm pretty sure this is the video Dan P. Was referring to.  Right around 5 minutes there is some pretty good old fashioned windmilling going on.  It is kinda grainy though.

[HWooldridge]

When I was a teenager, my grandfather would occasionally want to hand drill limestone blocks for repair on old German houses in this area (at the time, he was a carpenter by trade who also did some masonry work - and he had also worked as a blacksmith in the mid-1920's).  I was petrified the first time he gave me an 8 lb. sledge and held the rock drill in his hand but I managed to never hit him.  He always said the full circle overhead swing was better suited to work down low, like driving stakes, because you had more time to make adjustments as the hammer came through the top of the swing - but he preferred the short stroke style when working at the anvil.  I never thought much about it then but makes sense as I remember working with him.

The funny thing is that my grown sons also trust me not to strike them when holding something driven into the ground - but I use tongs when holding for them...

[Francis Trez Cole]

here is a Bruce making a 7# striking hammer and then the hammers in action.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551vHbALDL4 I love it what is old is new.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Francis Trez Cole

[Frosty]

You have to trust the striker for sure. However something can always go wrong, the handle can break, lose the head, etc. Heck, a hornet could sting the striker at the wrong split second. Things go wrong.

If you take a closer look you'll notice the fellow holding the stock is NOT in the plane of rotation of Francis' blow. A good striker positions him/erself so the smith can hold the stock on the anvil the way he needs to be but does NOT swing in line with the smith. If the head flew off the handle it'd pass the other fellow on his left. Just because the hammer head is pointed at him doesn't mean he's in line with the swing. I'll bet Francis doesn't even think about keeping the smith out of the plane of rotation.

Stay OUT of the plane of rotation, ANY plane of rotation and you're a LOT safer.

Frosty the Lucky.

[DSW]

When I was a teenager, my grandfather would occasionally want to hand drill limestone blocks for repair on old German houses in this area (at the time, he was a carpenter by trade who also did some masonry work - and he had also worked as a blacksmith in the mid-1920's).  I was petrified the first time he gave me an 8 lb. sledge and held the rock drill in his hand but I managed to never hit him.  He always said the full circle overhead swing was better suited to work down low, like driving stakes, because you had more time to make adjustments as the hammer came through the top of the swing - but he preferred the short stroke style when working at the anvil.  I never thought much about it then but makes sense as I remember working with him.

The funny thing is that my grown sons also trust me not to strike them when holding something driven into the ground - but I use tongs when holding for them...

​Holding steel concrete pins for someone driving them with a sledge, I learned to always hold pins with your thumb down vs thumb up the way everyone wants to grab them If the sledge misses and hits your arm, your hand automatically opens and releases the pin as opposed to the other way around where the hand is forced into the pin and you can break your wrist or thumb. It's awkward at 1st, but after a bit it's all 2nd nature.

[SJS]

Skill and good judgment comes from experience.  Experience comes from learning from the consequences of poor execution, and poor judgment.  Part of why I don't do hollow grinds on knives is that I haven't been willing to have a high failure rate. To get good you need to get the bad ones out first, and I don't have the time.  So I continue to forge to shape and flat grind most things. With sledges I have gang sledged at demos and conferences before, and I did good enough, no glaring errors, except one hammer clash where I was rushing the strike... ;-)  But like HWooldridge's grandpaw for most blacksmith applications I would be happier with strikers using a hand up strike with A LOT more control...  Plus most of us aren't forging things where you really need a full swing, its flashy and, it is kinda fun, until someone has a big misstrike that garfs the piece up bad.  I suspect I could only put up about an 80%-90% accuracy with a full swing starting cold with an 8# or larger sledge, but I am picky;-)  I often do what Francis showed in the pic above, I have the helper hold the steel while I swing the sledge.  I know where I can put the hammer.  It takes time and attention to train a striker, and the striker has to be willing to learn...  If you have a willing an able striker, it can be a true joy to forge as a team like that.  But I haven't been that lucky most of the time, generally you only get one of the two important qualifications:  willing or able...  I am taking Nathan Robertson's hammer making class here June 3rd&4th right before I do the opening night demo at the IBA conference in Tipton, IN.  The class will have us striking for one another to make a hand hammer, and a 6# striking hammer.  I have made hammers before, but am curious enough and humble enough to wonder what I don't know that someone who does it all the time can teach me, plus it sounds like fun... I have been blacksmithing 30years and still enjoy every opportunity to learn I get, or try to ;-)  We will see if Nathan wants us to use a full swing???

[Francis Trez Cole]

SJS you are right I was forging with a sledge hammer. Its not only the accuracy its the stamina . Travis and I forged a large bird out of 1/2"x 3" bar stock. it Took about 6 hours and he was done after 20 min. 

[SJS]

Tom Clark used to have a fire wood business, and split hundreds if not thousands of ricks of wood without a hydraulic wood splitter.  When you are working like that you learn how to only exert yourself as much as you have to in order to get the job done.  You also get real accurate;-)  A lot of young strong enthusiastic guys wear themselves out.  You can't fight the hammer.  You can't just jerk it around.  You are providing guidance, encouragement;-), and direction.  You pull it back, and get it up, and then swing it back into play.  A lot of young guys wear themselves out using a sledge that is too heavy for them to use effectively, by which I mean, with good speed, good accuracy, and good endurance.  Part of getting older is hopefully getting wiser, learning to respect, but not necessarily be bounded by your limitations.  I really like my 8# rounding hammer helper sledge, and use it in preference to any other sledge, but to be honest I find it easier to work with the 6# straight sledge, and I can work longer with the lighter hammer without being winded.  If I were striking regularly for someone, I would quickly build the strength and endurance, at least I always have in the past... ;-) But I practically go up a shirt size going back into the gym for a week, I have always bulked up fast.

[MrMaelstrom]

I had never been, or worked with, a striker until I met a good friend of mine (who is around on this forum somewhere). He is a hammer buff, through and through, and after some convincing, we decided to make me a 2lb straight peen. I was fresh to this, although I had quite a bit of time with a single handed hammer, I didnt have the stamina or the trust in myself. Took us about 2 hours to do that first one with me swinging a 14lb sledge with careful swings and having to put the steel back into the forge when I was tired. Right before I moved though, the "rail road swing" was almost normal, and I found it a bit easier to conserve momentum by doing it. Still couldn't sustain it for a while though, but we were able to forge a 3 lb Brian Brazeal-style rounding hammer in about 45 minutes or so. 

Trust was a big thing. I found that as I got a bit more accurate, I could swing a bit harder. Then all I did was rinse and repeat until I gradually built up the strength. Then came his trust in me not to smash him in the head. When he struck for me though, it was trust from a different perspective. I am 5'6" swinging either a 10 lb or 14lb sledge, not exactly an imposing figure. He is 6'+ swinging a 22lb sledge (half swings), and causing the entire floor of his barn to vibrate like a drum. THAT took alot of getting used to :-P

[crij]

As a volunteer at a Railroad Museum and someone that windmills on occasion, so far every video shown shows half strikes.  The Windmill swing is readily noticeable as neither hand moves from the end of the handle, and the head rolls away from the striker after it hits to salvage some of the momentum in starting the swing.  Personally not sure if I would want to be that close to the metal when striking that hard, and not sure how it would translate to hitting something waist height, though the circus roust-abouts are windmilling at that height driving the tent stakes.

 

spiking starts at 4:40 (overall movie is also good shows semi modern trackwork)

Regards,

Rich C.

Edited May 11, 2015 by crij

[JHCC]

Interesting in those two videos how the head of the hammer barely gets above the head of the striker.

[David Schimetz]

I worked high production tie gangs in the late 70's to middle 90's Mainly on Tie Gang 9 for Foreman Big Nic ( Les Nicholas) a several times winner of Gandy Olympics BNRR. Not only did  we wind mill spikes down with up to 4 men but also much harder to hit was crossing spikes where the head of the spike was about the size of a dime and we used to make it harder by using the smaller end of the spike maul . That my friend takes talent! 

Edited April 26, 2021 by David Schimetz
Left out who I worked for and spelling errors