b4utoo

Forging a Hammer process?

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Im kinda confused. 

Or alot confused.

4140 and 1045 steel.

Process start to finish.

Anyone want to take the time would be appreciated.

Is there more ways than one to do this?

Heat treating, annealing, normalizing, dipping in oil or water, heat temps etc...

I was going to do this, this weekend. But as I prepared more I read more confused I got..

I need to go back to basics steps start to finish..1.2.3...

Seems others are doing something a bit different each article I read..

 

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Good Morning,

This is going to open a can of worms. Is there not a member of CBA whom you could talk to? I know Brent Bailey has more experience than a lot. If I remember, you can purchase an eye drift from him, made from Atlantic 33.

What type of Forge? What tooling do you have? What do you have for support, while punching the eye hole? What type of Hammer are you dreaming of? Do you have a Power Hammer or a Forging Press? etc.......

Neil

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Honestly, hoss, you don't sound like you've got the experience or tooling to make a hammer.  Your questions, to date, have been simplistic, to say the least, and indicate that you're just starting in the trade, yet you want to jump right in the deep.  If the plethora of information already published on the internet is too hard for you to grasp, you're definitely not ready to try forging a hammer.

 

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There are a lot of ways to go about making a hammer. Part of it depends on the type of hammer you're making. You have a lot of options available. For example you could use a hammer eye punch that has a slight sharp tapered tip like Brian Brazeal with a striker to punch the eye, Mark Aspery uses a flat slot punch (which is probly the easiest to see what's going wrong for a first time punching large stock, Brent Bailey uses a slitting chisel on his videos. When having a striker I usually use a tong held eye punch, shaped like Brians handled eye punch. When by myself no striker I have used a slitting chisel, slot punch and hand held eye punch at different times. It depends on tooling. You could use a tapered drift for the whole thing or a parallel sided drift. Pick a way of doing the hammer and make the tools for that style of doing it. Practice punching on some larger mild scrap first though unless you think you can do it as the eye is the easiest place to get things wrong fast. You could even get a discussion started as to who thinks their way is best. But in the end it's which way is best for the person making it and the type/style hammer you are making.

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are you going to forge a rounding hammer, cross peen? what size? then we can start talking seriously!

tools you will need for any hammer is: anvil, forge, big hammer/small hammer(or a power hammer), hammer eye punch(I recommend B. Brazeal's), drift.

if you want to forge a rounding hammer you will need: cupping tool, top/bottom fullers, flatter, camel hump tools, + the rest.

there are may good videos on you tube on forging hammer.(I probably seen most of them).

P.S. 2" semi axle works good for hammers about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 lbs. (its 4140 I believe...)

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First  - do you have a eye punch and a eye drift?

​I have just about everything...If someone mentions something I don't have, I will speak up. Thanks ;-)

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Good Morning,

This is going to open a can of worms. Is there not a member of CBA whom you could talk to? I know Brent Bailey has more experience than a lot. If I remember, you can purchase an eye drift from him, made from Atlantic 33.

What type of Forge? What tooling do you have? What do you have for support, while punching the eye hole? What type of Hammer are you dreaming of? Do you have a Power Hammer or a Forging Press? etc.......

Neil

​No power hammer yet, in process...of making one...(working on a safer version). No members to talk with. Home made forge and a nice old Canedy aswell. I have 3 anvils to work with including a 205 fisher eagle....Want to start with a rounding hammer...I guess you can say brazeal style. My brother should be coming to help in a week.

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Honestly, hoss, you don't sound like you've got the experience or tooling to make a hammer.  Your questions, to date, have been simplistic, to say the least, and indicate that you're just starting in the trade, yet you want to jump right in the deep.  If the plethora of information already published on the internet is too hard for you to grasp, you're definitely not ready to try forging a hammer.

 

​Appreciate this response...hope to surprise you.

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are you going to forge a rounding hammer, cross peen? what size? then we can start talking seriously!

tools you will need for any hammer is: anvil, forge, big hammer/small hammer(or a power hammer), hammer eye punch(I recommend B. Brazeal's), drift.

if you want to forge a rounding hammer you will need: cupping tool, top/bottom fullers, flatter, camel hump tools, + the rest.

there are may good videos on you tube on forging hammer.(I probably seen most of them).

P.S. 2" semi axle works good for hammers about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 lbs. (its 4140 I believe...)

​Im good on this...tool wise....except camel hump tool? sorry got me here...another wording on this?

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Lyle Wynn (LDW) posted a bunch of photos of Brian Brazeal's classes to his Google Picasa account a few years ago. I don't know if it is still public, or have the link handy, but there were literally thousands of images of making hammers and other tools, plus the associated tooling.

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If you don't understand the the discussions posted already what makes you think you'll understand when folk post the same info again? You'll still have to sift out posts from folk with no real experience again. Reading your posts so far it looks like you're under the common  mis-impression that it's the tools that do the jobs and are collecting everything you can find. Have you built a fire, done any of the basic projects, perfected any of them?

If you had even the basic skills you'd be asking serious questions, say 'how do I keep the punch going straight?' Seriously you don't even know enough to ask good questions. Even if someone told you what questions to ask, without experience they're just words, words won't do the job for you either.

Frosty the Lucky

Edited by Frosty

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Good Morning,

The reason I asked what tools do you have, most Hammer Handle drift's will get stuck in the Hardy Hole. If you had done your Homework, here in the archives, you will have learned that 2" Semi-Axle is 1045H, not 4140. I have used Semi-Axle with good results, quenching in water. I now use 1045.

Rashelle touched on the biggest problem, putting the Handle Hole in the middle (sideways) of your material. Tom Clark (bless his soul) showed us that he drills 3-1/4" pilot holes, after laying out the blank with a ruler,  a square and with heavy center punch marks. Tom lays out both sides and drills from both sides to the middle, this makes any run out with the drill negligible. Using this process, I prefer to start with a slitting chisel made from H13 or S7. This starts the hole, then you switch to your Drift, making sure to keep the sides of the hole parallel to the sides of the Blank (if it is not square, you will have to make a handle that is not square. You can't correct it!!). The Drift needs to be tapered at the angle of the Hour Glass shape of your hole. You have to keep flipping the Blank, after each punching session so you are creating the Hour Glass shape in the Hole. When you are drifting the hole, if you used the Hardy hole for support, you will forge in marks from the edge of the Hardy Hole. The notion of a camel hump tool, is to create radius support for the Blank. When you are punching the Hole, the sides will bulge out, If you hammer the Bulge with the Drift in the Hole, you can move material to make the HOUR Glass shape on the top and bottom, leaving the sides flat. With the sides flat, the head will lay flat on your Anvil. AFTER the Handle Hole is the shape you wish, you can continue with each end. This is one process.

John Newman told me that the Blacksmith's at the Steel Foundry in Hamilton make Sledge Hammers with an Iron Worker with a round punch for the Punch. They flatten out the bulge in the sides, which makes the Hole oval shape. This process takes HUGE equipment, more than you will have at home.

You must remember that a Hammer is a lump on a stick. Some are a pleasure to look at and use, some are the Tramp Steamer (still gets the job done).

Neil

 

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Good Morning,

The reason I asked what tools do you have, most Hammer Handle drift's will get stuck in the Hardy Hole. If you had done your Homework, here in the archives, you will have learned that 2" Semi-Axle is 1045H, not 4140. I have used Semi-Axle with good results, quenching in water. I now use 1045.

I thought I posted I have 4140 and 1045 steel....I didn't mention Semi-Axle...

I never claimed the above info...

Maybe reference to the other poster....?

good info on camel hump tool...

 

So far the info I am getting is what I read...I am trying to see if I missed a step... so far.

If you don't understand the the discussions posted already what makes you think you'll understand when folk post the same info again? You'll still have to sift out posts from folk with no real experience again. Reading your posts so far it looks like you're under the common  mis-impression that it's the tools that do the jobs and are collecting everything you can find. Have you built a fire, done any of the basic projects, perfected any of them?

If you had even the basic skills you'd be asking serious questions, say 'how do I keep the punch going straight?' Seriously you don't even know enough to ask good questions. Even if someone told you what questions to ask, without experience they're just words, words won't do the job for you either.

Frosty the Lucky

Neil

 

 

 

 

 

FROSTY

I understand quite a bit...I believe I am over reading and over thinking it. And I agree I may not be asking the right questions. But I am asking in order to learn the steps...

I am looking for that one thing I might of missed.

Going to read some more...

I am thinking I should post the steps I believe to be true...and let you all break it down. Would this make more sense?

 

And I am buying/picking up stuff....well because I can..and plan to alter the existing pieces in projects at a later date when I know what I'm doing.

Hope to get better questions in future so as I don't waste anyones time.

 

 

 

Edited by b4utoo
To add reason on some actions of buying other tools

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This is just me, if I were interested in making serious hammers, I would find a tool making class and start there.

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You're making perfect sense but there is no ONE thing. Blacksmithing is an accumulation of a little knowledge and a LOT of practice. You can accumulate knowledge and tools your whole life and not actually learn much of use. You need to build a fire and start working the steel. The first hammer I made, with help was pretty easy all I needed was Mark to show me how to keep the punch straight and he let me use his power hammer and cupping die. Even without it, I'd beaten enough hot steel to have figured it out on my own, maybe, probably not the first try but I wouldn't learned FAR more if I'd made more mistakes.

Lots of beginners are looking for the SECRET and most don't like my answer. A little knowledge and a LOT of practice. That's it, THE secret. No amount of combing for text meanings you might have missed will teach you the craft. You'll actually be on the right track when you come back with a pic and asking us what went wrong.

I'm not looking to discourage you, I'd just like you at least close to the right trail to success, as it is now you're practicing to be a data analyst. Just build a fire and go for it, we won't be able to do much for you till you do.

Frosty The Lucky.

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B

 

   Can I make a suggestion?

Please list the steps that you know about and the order of operation, and also the tools needed for each step. 

   Hopefully someone with more experience than you or I will see the missing steps and fill you in. 

Russell

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Oh boy. I did a 7-11 typed page pamphlet with drawings on how to make a rounding hammer. It's A way of making it based on Brian's teaching. It's not the only way, and in fact I had changed some things to fit me. For example my hump tools are L shaped with the smaller leg of the L being rounded and sticking up. They don't fall over that way but are harder to make. So for the steps in short form using a striker, as I'm not typing out several pages of description trying to cover options and everything that can go wrong:

For a 2 lbs rounding hammer I started with 4.5" of 2.5"Round 4140 or1 045, work with what you have, others work well also this is just easy to come by. For a 4 lbs hammer use 4.5" of 2" Round. Note you will lose some weight due to scale, the plug, and clean up. Take a good measurement and set a sliding square or a compass to center for the length of the bar. Get a good heat, I usually use a flatter and a striker one good blow each side mark 4 sides, 2 of them to indicate opposite sides top and bottom, the other two give me a slightly better place to grip using Habermann style hammer tongs. Line up top and bottom straight, have your striker use the measuring device to find center in your top slightly flatted area. Line your eye punch straight up and down there. Have the striker just touch the struck end of the punch with the sledge, just a pin prick.

Remove the eye punch and LOOK for straightness and centered. If good hit harder if not straighten it out before driving the punch. Once straight and good start driving the punch removing the punch between blows, rotating the stock between blows. I use wax to cool the punch as needed, usually impregnated with coal dust, sometimes sprinkling more coal dust in the hole if the punch starts to stick. I usually go approx halfway through a side. I then go and start from the other side again just a pin prick to align and get going. If you are doing bad on one side, finish punching from the other side, that will help even things out. If your eye is sloppy make a top tool instead of a hammer. There are ways to correct things going wrong. Once the eye is punched:

Using your hand hammer drive the drift till it's tight on the sides, Place cupping tool in hardy, or swage block whatever you're using, use a flatter on the back with what will be the round face of the hammer in the cupping tool and the flat face being flattered. I start some on the faces, then go to working they cheeks, by driving the tapered drift by hand then working up the drift with top and bottom fullers driving the cheeks from center up towards the smith up the drift never down the drift as that closes the eye. Drive drift from other side on next heat, keep repeating working cheeks up the drift and using the cupping tool to release the drift, alternate using the flatter on the peaks of the cheeks and the fullers to make the flat have valleys. Using cupping tool to release. Use the hump tools to support the work as you develop the cheeks so you don't gall them over the hardy hole while driving the drift. Bear down on the drift when driving it to prevent bouncing.

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Ok now that the punching is done, they cheeks are fullered out and the faces are in shape. Use your hammer tongs holding the hammer lengthwise in the eye. The tip of the tongs acting as a stop Fuller in the troughs, to your aesthetics. Place drift back in and on the top area make your mark. Clean up and wire brush. Hot rasp as needed for clean up. (Remember I do most of my stuff as if it's 1845 so I don't use power tools usually.) Normalize and do file clean up. Clean up inner edges of eye so they are rounded. Make like your are shining a shoe with a strip of sand paper such as from an old sanding belt., When happy with clean up. Heat to non magnetic and quench in water. There are a lot of ways to temper hammers. You can place in oven at home, heat a drift or three and watch the temper colors move out from center to yellow on the faces. Use like Frank Turley a heated bent bar that fits around the hammer face. Sometimes after hardening my hammer face in water when in a hurry I'll dip it in a peanut oil that burns off at 400 degrees supposedly and put it back over the fire till the oil smokes off. Cool it, dip in oil again and pace back over fire again. Note this may be a little soft for some people on their hammer face so you may be better off using your oven as 4140 and 1045 are not the most hard steels in the first place.

Clean up and handle. I prefer slab handles. In sizing the handle once ready I dip the end in a little oil the drive it on for the last time. Drive the wood wedge then the hand made metal wedge. Use a little more peanut oil and oil the handle.

There an hammer in a short story form.

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sorry for the late reply... I was at school.

camel hump tools if I recall are like fullers that sit on you anvil when drifting after you fuller the cheeks so they wont deform. here is an great video of Daniel lea forging a rounding hammer. and here are the camel hump tools.

 

 

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Notice the light touch when first starting the hole. Then at 39 seconds rotating the hammer in the tongs. Again at 58 seconds. Cooling the punch near 1:20. Hump tools at 9:37 seconds. He fullers the cheeks in a different order then me. I do then at the same time as working on the faces. It's all good, same end result. 10:40 he hardens the hammer. Around 12:16 he has a hot drift inside the eye tempering the hammer head. 13:29 pictures of nice hammers. 

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Good Morning,

Make all your Tools first. If they don't work, you will understand why and then remake them.

Rule #1 - Don't work when the Blank is too cold. Get it Hot.

Rule #2 - Things will get stuck. If you loose your cool, Don't continue until you are thinking clear. The Blank is Hot, the drift is cold, you are hammering the drift as hard as you can into the Blank. When the drift heats up, it becomes tighter and won't want to come out. Hit the outsides of the cheeks HARD to start to spring the drift free. Continue, again and again. You will end up with a lump with a hole. "O' Holey Night....."

Rule #3 - Don't expect your first hammer Head to be beautiful.

Rule #4 - Get away from the keyboard and don't turn it back on to "Ask a Question".

Neil

 

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Thanks for that post Rashelle.  Gave me a few things to think about that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.  Biggest is what part of the cheeks to work on while the drift is in.

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