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b4utoo

Flattening Leaf Springs?

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People today have information overload.  It was not that long ago that if you walked into a blacksmith shop, everyone stopped what they were doing and laid the hammer down until you left. Only until you PAID YOUR DUES IN FULL were you allowed even the smallest piece of information.

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Knowledge is not free it is earned, information on the other hand is desired by those without the knowledge they wish to possess (myself for instance), the exchange of knowledge, especially for free, is up to the good heart of the knowledge holder. The best way to pay for free information is with respect, and can be shown with hat in hand. Remember Blacksmiths earned their knowledge the hard way. 

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Glenn, I wrote almost that exact same post; then deleted it and doubled my ignore list.

Turbo---a great line!  "Knowledge is not free it is earned"

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So Glenn can I retract my previous statement and say Knowledge should be shared :)

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Well all and all I do appreciate the responses. I think I will consider sending them in to a professional. So at least in this I won't inflict injury upon myself. If I get extra money soon.

If I come up with or find another method, I will be sure to share it. Free :0)

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Before you proceed, get prices for straightening old steel that may or may not have micro fractures from being in use for years vs new steel that has never been used before. Choose wisely no matter what the price. Also build a strong guard around any part that may self destruct, strong enough that you or someone else using the machine can walk away from the event.

Thank you for accepting the advice given and the intent in which it was presented. YOUR SAFETY is our first concern.

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Cage gaurds are to stop you falling onto a part, plate gaurds are to stop bits flying out, they do need to "contain" all the broken peices if something goes wrong

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I am tired.  When I get tired I get cranky.   When I get cranky I have little patience.   This is a forum where people ask questions.  Right?  

This forum has been extremely helpful to me.   But I asked some questions a while back where it felt like I was expected to fail and waste time and money in order to then be "allowed" to ask a question about the why?     I got several responses that were not at all helpful.  Those responses took energy.   More energy than it would have taken to simply say something like "quenching a 1084 knife in water will be a bad idea and may likely Crack.   Probably best to not do it."     But instead I got a lot of energy spent by supposedly "very busy people" telling me all sorts of stuff that was not at all helpful, chastising etc.    Really???    

If your time is so valuable that you can't be helpful then why do you have time to reply to chastise?   I have a concern that this forum is sometimes trending to an elite or antagonistic attitude in it's responses at times.    And it is subtle.   More about written "attitude".   Which of course is hard to interpret.  I recognize that intent is hard to interpret from text.    

Anyway, all I ask is that we all think about and remember when we knew nothing....    Some may have to remember way way back....   

Think about and remember how we failed and how we can help prevent others from failing but by also teaching such that others learn.   Think about how we can help promote the art without being elitist but also without being overly spoon feeding too.  

Ok. My two cents.   I suspect I'll get hammered from many sides or this thread will get killed.    

 

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Often you end up paying for some one else's mistake (or many some ones) some of the old codgers get tired of answering the same question over and over again, or can tell that you need to learn more to ask the right question. To often they have tried to back up a step or three and bring a guy up to speed just to have him throw a wall eyed fit because he didn't like the answer he needed, obstensively because it wasn't the question he asked (more likely not the answer he wanted. After a wile you imply tell the next new guy, who by the inept question to go and read the last 50 times the same question was answered, and come back when you know enough to be ignorant. This is compounded buy being tired, or being in a hurry and not reading the entire question, or dealing with a troll or some twit that feels entitled. We all do it,

i was the new guy a decade ago, I try to pay it forward, I try to answer the simple questions that have been asked a thousand times, or the questions that are so badly expressed that you no the guy needs an afternoon in front of the forge just to learn enough to be ignorant. But like my predecessors, the guys that helped me learn enough to be ignorant, i have ran in to a few "individuals" that felt that that they had some special privilege to come at me like i was a servant. Sorry, we are all guests here, on a web sight payed for buy a private citizen, its like hanging out on a friends front porch. Remember your manners, and don't pee in the window boxes. Secondly, when I come to some one (or a room full of some ones) and ask them to share knowledge with me, I listen to them, I express to them what I thought I learned and I thank them, I don't hurang them for "not answering my question" or "not staying on topic". 

Not bashing you, Born To Late, just trying to show you what may be going on when some on Is short and grouchy. Some times you end up paying for some one else's mistake, take it with a grain of salt, if you have a bit of grace, the offender will usually notice and make amends by being especially helpful in the future.

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Go up to the search feature and search, greasy stick.  It should give you enough info to do what you want to do.  You will need to pull the spring pack apart to be able to straighten the leaves though, dont do it all in the pack bolted together.

 

Phil

 

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I myself am still what I would consider new to blacksmithing. I have asked a question (or two????) that didn't receive the response expected by me. But I have realized that the majority of them, while seeming a bit condescending/harsh were still intended to be helpful. 

 

As to the statements about sharing knowledge, ...  the amount of time it takes to frustratedly point out to someone that they didn't ask as simple of a question as they thought is quite often much less than the time it would take to answer the full range of possibilities a "simple" question may cover. 

 

As to the plethora of cautions thrown out... think of it this way, if someone supplied an answer that fit the question asked(but not necessarily the intent the asker had) and someone used their suggestion and got hurt, don't you think they would feel bad? People don't offer cautions out of mean-spiritedness, but out of concern. 

One final comment, even if you thought some of the people were being gruff, they were still being willing to freely share their knowledge and time (which is far from free for most things)... that is until it reached a point where it seemed their time wasn't being held in regard. Now it appears you may have lost access to some VERY valuable sources of information/experience.

Edited by LastRonin
Fat Finger Syndrome

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Sometimes we think that you should know more about a process than just the answer to a "simple" question.  Sometimes this is due to safety issues, Sometimes it is that we want you to be able to succeed in a wide range of similar tasks rather than just *1* task---we don't like "teaching to the test" so to speak.

 I know this can be annoying; but it's also annoying when people ask for a simple answer to complex questions---one of my un-favorites is "what temperature should I temper to?" That, without any other information, is generally  between 300 degF and 1200 degF depending on: alloy, thickness, intended use, prior heat treat, and personal preference.

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B4u, 

although tempted, I'll skip the ideological discussion. Used leaf springs are an unknown quanity. They are fitted for the purpose that they serve. You want to modify the product. Straightening in the simplest way would involve, annealing and manipulating the spring to your desired dimensions. Things to keep in mind include fatigue fractures from service. Bolt hole penetrations and the formed ends. All these can and will cause failure in the end product.  Springs are cheap and plentiful but you run the risk of investing time and having the product fail. Heat treating can be hit or miss if you don't know exactly what the make up of the material is. Thus you have another procedural step that can lead to a product failure. 

The good news is that if you want to practice forging knives, leaf springs are a good source of material to practice your skills with. You should be prepared for the suprise disappointment that accompanies using scrap product. In the PI and Thailand I have seen street side smiths pound out machetes and bola knives and they all have a scrap pile of failures. Even the guys that use scrap springs know it's hit or miss. 

Good luck 

Peter 

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I was born in 1980, very much a part of the generation that gets things instantly. But I grew up on an Indian reservation, no running water, no electricity, very much as my grandfather had.... I find myself now 35 years later, with one foot in the modern world and another in a world of the past, I must say I very much prefer the time when everything took hard work, respect and busted knuckles.

listen to a master, don't speak, if he becomes side tracked, learn from what he says, even if it is not what you needed to know.

that is the best advice I can give......learn from every word what it has to teach.

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as alluded to buy Smooth bore, why straiten the spring. If you are making a helve type power hammer (ie "old rusty" or the "junk yard hammer") the the curve can be worked around. As you are securing the spring pack upside down on a pivot where the original axle was (right side up and you need to disassemble the pack and reassemble it so the leaves are on top of the main spring) you now need a yoke on one end connected to a drive rod to a crank to convert rotational movement to linear movement. And you shackle the hammer head to the other end of the spring. The advantage of this mechanism is its relatively simple, it can be driven by foot power easily and the spring pack is doing exactly what it was designed to do with out modification. 

Btw, a pm and an apology is a cheap and easy way to gain access to some one with the information you might need, after you stick your foot in your mouth. Some things sound great when you type them, not so much when some one reads them. 

As Master Powers points out, seemingly simple questions can lead to some long and convoluted answers. And your not the only person that will be reading this. I was a mechanic, raised buy a mechanic, things like this come easy to my mind, but getting some one else to fallow my crazy logic, not so much.

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My brain is getting fried. Im reading good advice....I think im going to take a pause, and considr it and this project further before proceeding. Thank you'all

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Another point worth consideration.

A direct answer to a direct question is a useful thing, ... but on an Internet Forum, that "simple" answer, is seen by many others, who also derive information from that source.

For that reason, ... I think it's appropriate to give "full" answers, ... and avoid making assumptions about the recipient ( s ).

The "details" and "trivia", might be just what's needed, by a "lurking" 3rd Party.

 

 

 

.

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Hey, all.   I loved the tone above.   Just read through it all.   We teach on this forum.    That is what this forum does for so many.  Teach.   

Teaching is an art.  Tone is important.   Especially on this forum which is all about typed words.   Typed words can be misconstrued in regard to tone.   I think we all need to be cognizant of that.   If someone is doing a dumass dangerous thing our tone needs to be appropriate.   

I dunno, I guess I am saying that if folks are going to put forth the effort to reply to a question then we need to consider ourselves as a teacher that wants our student to learn and we have to be very thoughtful (and this may take effort on the teachers part) to understand how to help.    For me it is up to the teacher to do that.    On the other hand a teacher needs a willing student.   If the student is unwilling then why waste our time at all?  Don't even reply.   

 

 

 

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About teaching, you can't really "teach" people, especially not on the internet. All you can really do is offer information, experience and examples. It's up to the student to learn. It's not like we can take a whip or idiot stick to a student so it's up to them.

Useful advice. If a person can't take being talked to like an adult then working with HOT steel and dangerous tools is probably not your pursuit. The steel doesn't care, it just is, nor does the fire, the hammer, cuts, power tools, any of it. Nothing a human can say to you is as hard to take is a piece grabbed by a wire or buffing wheel and thrown through your chest. OR say you're standing in the wrong place when a 3lb. hammer slips from the smith's grip. On and on and far more permanent that words.

Blacksmithing is a HARD craft, not difficult but HARD as in steel. It's not like some, say professional cake decoration, while precise and demanding well worthy of respect it isn't a HARD craft. Masonry, carpentry, truck driving, heavy equipment operation, etc. are HARD crafts. The price of mistakes can mean body parts, crippling or death for the craftsman or innocent bystanders.

If some of us get short with a person for not wanting to listen or only wanting to listen to what they in their infinite beginnerhood believe is important, this might not be the craft for you. You don't get more lives, fingers, eyes, ears, etc.

Nobody can keep someone who is determined from doing IT whatever IT is or doing IT their way. Just remember the price is yours to pay. We can only do what we can, tell you the rightest way years of experience has taught us, point out the failure points, where to stand, etc. We can't make you listen or follow a darned thing. That's on YOU.

I have enough trouble not getting emotionally involved arguing with people bound and determined to do it their own way regardless to cry about their shed blood. I'm not going to do it anymore, I'll offer help and if it's not wanted fine.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Don't get toooo frosty .. Frosty....  I kinda like your gruff to the point approach .  

Jim

 

 

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Don't get toooo frosty .. Frosty....  I kinda like your gruff to the point approach .  

Jim

 

 

​Me to the point Jim? Uh. . . Oh I'm not going anywhere I'm just tired of arguing, it makes me feel bad and I'm not here to feel bad. I'll still offer advice, opinion or help brainstorm ideas and problems I'm just tired of being asked a question and reading all the reasons a person wants something else or read why they just can't do it that way.

Maybe these kid's recent attitude remind me of my own adolescence. I know Dad wished I'd just shut up sometimes. Probably just karmic kick back huh. Maybe I'm just feeling down.

Frosty The Lucky.

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