FlyingXS Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hi Guys I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the french Hulot Harmel anvil?What I would expressly like to know is it a cast steel anvil or does it have a tool plate top and their reputation. I did find a few via google but couldn't make out enough info as I don't speak french.I believe the 40803 is a serial number and estimate this anvil is around 100Kg+Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Don't know anything about its composition or quality, but it sure looks nice. Wonderfully heavy and thick. I'd trade my London Pattern for it in a hot minute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) That is a beautiful anvil. Edited February 28, 2015 by njanvilman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Google translate is your friend. From the French Wikipedia: "Anvils made of molten (cast) steel were manufactured in the forges (plants) and steel mills concentrated mostly in France, in Le Creusot. The most common names are manufacturers Firminy, Claudinon, Aubry, Sambre and Meuse at Sedan, and Hulot Harmel in Donchéry ..."Hulot Harmel was in the towns ofSedan & Donchery, along the La Meuse river, close to the Ardennes Forest and the border with Belgium. They started in business in 1827, and produced anvils and other ironwork for over a century, but that's all I could find.There are a couple of older threads here at IFI about these anvils. Edited February 28, 2015 by John McPherson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 I bought the anvil today and it is cast I wonder if the top is chilled? Google translate isn't helping as much as it used to for me. There used to be a translate option when opening webpages which I no longer get. So it is a bit hard to cut and paste to translate when your not sure which bits are important.I now have to clean it up, fix it to a stand and work out what the hardie tools look like for a side exiting hardie hole and make some. Still love to know more about the maker etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I am running Google Chrome on my desktop. If you go into "Advanced Settings" and turn on the "Translate" feature, all you have to do is hover the cursor over text, and it will offer to translate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) finally, a sreious anvil I have a Hulot Harmel anvil, 101kg, forged. yours seem to be also forged. mine has a face that seems to be made of little bricks welded toghether, you could see the welding lines if you look closely.SO, don't hesitate, buy it IMMEDIATELY , they are very good quality and the french pattern, I think, is very, very rare in AU. bot not because it's rare I advise to buy it, because is a very, very good/versatile shape, one of the best. I'm a big fan of them. generally, French anvils are of good quality. I check their http://www.leboncoin.fr/annonces/offres/ile_de_france/occasions/?o=1&q=Enclume almost daily, just for the pleasure to look at them. most of them are still in good shape, and a good part in excellent condition, either the forged or the cast ones. they generally doesn't seem to have chipping problems (there are chips, of course, but I've never seen such damaged anvils by chipping like I've seen on this forum) neither heavy dishing problems. the forged ones seem to have thick face-plates. Edited February 28, 2015 by matei campan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 I did buy it mate! I hope it is as good as you say. Mine is 80cm tip to tip, 15cm wide on the face, and I think 27cm high. Never seen another French anvil in Australia and this one came over in a recent lot of antiques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 the size is approximately the same as mine, so it's ~100kg. why do you say it's cast, how can you see that?, anyway, even if it's cast, it must be a good one, it was one of the top makers in France. and excuse me I didn't see your post when you said that you already bought it. so, congratulations, you're now the happy owner of a French anvil on the other side of the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nah I bought it between the original post and when you posted, so you didn't miss it.The reason I say it is cast is not a certainty. I can't see where a top plate joins.I can't see any signs of forge welding or forging that I have seen on other london pattern anvils, this is the first of this kind I have seenJohn posted above that several french manufactures including Hulot cast anvilsAnother smith saw the anvil and said it was definitely a cast anvil.Although I do wonder why a cast anvil would need the square handling holes in the side, unless the were used during heat treat. So the general consensus is that it is a cast steel not cast iron anvil, but I'm happy to hear evidence for being forged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 you won't see where the top plate joins. on mine I just see the welding lines between the "bricks" composing the faceplate. I already saw several anvils of the same pattern as yours, on the "leboncoin.fr", and by the pics you could guess they are forged (not painted, easier to see the surface). you could look for the presence of the parting lines from the casting. also look on the chamfer of the pyramidal horn, there you could see if it's forged, and under the horns, etc. there is where I can see clearly on mine that's forged. maybe the other smith who saw it in person, has reason. me, I'm only guessing.check this out: http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/774014493.htm?ca=12_shttp://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/746985155.htm?ca=12_shttp://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/746985155.htm?ca=12_http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/746985155.htm?ca=12_shttp://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/746985155.htm?ca=12_shttp://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/746985155.htm?ca=12_s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Can you post a photo of the surface of yours showing the "bricks" please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I took some photos, not very good, because of the light, you can see them here (I hope the link works): http://s908.photobucket.com/user/matei-campan/library/HulotHarmel?sort=3&page=1it's quiet hard to photograph the "bricks", but you may see them. also you can see from the pics taken from under the horns that the anvil is forged, there are very clear forge marks and but no casting marks as parting lines, etc. you may post some photos from under the horns, it will help a lot to judge if the anvil is forged or cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Beautiful anvil, Matei! Still can't stop watching leboncoin way too often - thanks for the tip! Bests:Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Matei,Yes, you can see it in your photos. The amount of forge welding they did for an anvil face! That's amazing! Was it some sort of blister steel that they needed to pile up that many little pieces of steel to get a big sheet of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Matei,Yes, you can see it in your photos. The amount of forge welding they did for an anvil face! That's amazing! Was it some sort of blister steel that they needed to pile up that many little pieces of steel to get a big sheet of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 yes, maybe it's blister steel. I have another French anvil, a "a pig" - the face is composed of 5 steel bars welded along the face. the horns have thinner steel faces welded on them. anyway, a "pig" anvil it's the most complicated anvil to forge, they're just amazing the skills involved to forge such a thing.I saw just 2 French anvils with delaminated chunks off their faces, but I think they were damaged by bombs during the war (either of WW, heavy battles in that region), they looked like been torn off, not like sledge damaged. anyway, the plates are thick, like 1inch or more. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 yes, maybe it's blister steel. I have another French anvil, a "a pig" - the face is composed of 5 steel bars welded along the face. the horns have thinner steel faces welded on them. anyway, a "pig" anvil it's the most complicated anvil to forge, they're just amazing the skills involved to forge such a thing.I saw just 2 French anvils with delaminated chunks off their faces, but I think they were damaged by bombs during the war (either of WW, heavy battles in that region), they looked like been torn off, not like sledge damaged. anyway, the plates are thick, like 1inch or more. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 My Blacksmithing mentor came around the other day and fired my forge up for the first time and also christened the anvil. It has so much rebound that as the work cools to red the whole thing bounces of the anvil with each blow. I forged a hot cut to fit its side hardy hole.It is a great anvil, so I'm very happy with it.Any suggestions on best method for this style of anvil to attach it to the stump & how to deaden the ring a bit????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingXS Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I polished the face and no signs of "little bricks" on mine that I could find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 just put some angle iron or some thick flat steel over the feet and some long 10mm wood bolts like you can see in my photos in the link above.you'll notice the improvement.that "bricks" are not visible on a fresh polished surface, just after the slag from your work will wear the welding lines a bit. or maybe your anvil has a one-piece steel face or maybe is cast. they may used different technologies along their production time.so, after looking at the photos in the link above, showing the clear signs of a forged anvil, how do you think it's yours? can you post some more pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 a nother good sign that it is forged is the fact that the markings are all stamped into it and not raised on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 not always. me too I wanted to say that, that's a sign of a forged anvil, than I remembered some Swedish cast anvils that have the markings stamped into the surface... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 again proving how young the U.S. is. based off all the U.S. anvils that i know stamped is forged raised is cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 just an example of a clearly cast (you can see the parting lines from casting) steel anvil with stamped markings, an anvil I found for a friend. from the looking it may be a Swedish one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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