Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Beam me up, did you read what you typed? Sounded like a blanket condemnation of all who even occasinaly taped the anvil. What did you meen to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beammeupscotty Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 My final word, you math is off. Forging for 43 years. Forging how I want. I never said I taught students to "tap". You are reading what you want into many posts. I suppose that because you held up your 37 years of teaching as some sort of validation of your position, I assumed you were teaching your students to tap, otherwise, why mention your 37 years of teaching at all. Sorry I couldn't be bothered to add up the years since 1972. I guess because you have been smithing longer than I have and apparently tapping your anvil needlessly for all that time, that you must be correct. I am going out to the shop right now to practice my anvil tapping....and all this time I thought I was supposed to be hitting the hot steel. Never too old to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I do appreciate sarcasm, but when it thinly veils a personal attack, you are just begging the moderators to step in. What has you so deffensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I wonder what the bio-mechanical and ergonomic engineers wold have to say. Inertia, muscle/skeletal strain, efficiency... I see the folks in the tappers side, or neutral to tapping propose hypothesis as to possible reasons why people do so. Wile the no tap school offers blanket condemnation of the practice, with the dogmatic belife that it is a bad habit and waste of effort. Why is this? Because they are just taking wild guesses and have no idea what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Please present your vetted evidence, Artist. Otherwise it seems a very dogmatic statement are you realy saying that sinse they dont subscribe to your school of thought they dont know what they are talking about? Artist apply describes the work you have presented here, so your skills at the forge are not under attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 What a lot of fuss about nothing! Tap if you want to. Who cares? Let's get back to admiring the beautiful things made on the anvil, with or without taps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Well said. Ausfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Back to the original intent of the thread... There is a tradition among some that tap the anvil, traditions are often founded on some element of truth or something that seemed to work better. Often times the people doing/making something the "traditional" way didn't understand the science behind what they were doing in the way that we would. Like the Japanese laminating sword blades to overcome the limitations of the deep hardening steel that they were water quenching... Or the patternwelded swords in western Europe again coming up with a solution to an embrittlement issue. I am honestly curious where the tradition comes from, and who popularized it. I personally can't see of a good way to "scientifically" test to see if there is any honest benefit to the practice, other than a pause while you think and adjust. But I am not willing to categorically condemn anyone who uses the technique. A lot of us are self taught, we don't come out of a specific tradition, we made it up as we went along and found what worked best for us. I have heard Clifton Ralph tell stories about German, Polish and Czech blacksmiths in the steel mill who had some very rigid ideas about how the apprentices should swing their sledge hammers. Clifton even as a young punk was an ornery old cuss, and told them "you can complain if I hit the (xxxx) thing wrong, but don't tell me how I have to hold the hammer your special way to hit it." To use a horse analogy there are a lot of people who do the whole "natural Horsemanship" thing badly, many of them look like idiots and look like they are going to get themselves hurt. That doesn't mean that the system isn't a valid method of training, or that there aren't good solid element of "truth" in the methodology. Or that Monty Roberts, or Pat Parelli aren't great horse trainers... I suspect that might be the case here. I also suspect I don't have the information to make a honest judgment of the technique. If it is just a superstitious obsessive compulsive behavior then we probably shouldn't be passing it along. If it does help with working in a nice rhythm and reduces the strain on you hammer hand then it might have some usefulness? Like I said in a previous post I'm not really a tapper, but I also don't hold the sledge with my off hand on my near hip and punch the sledge down with my right hand either, but I'm not going to tell some European smith he is an idiot for holding his sledge that way, as long as he gets the job done;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thank you SJS, well put. We have a member that deals in work related injuries, and i hooe he chimes in. But it is rather amazing what the math guyscan model. I find that with experience and a heavier hammer i tend to take more deliberate strikes. Much less if ant tedacy to strike the anvil than when i was pumping away like a rabid chinchilla. But i don't see that it hurts and it may indeed help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I went out and forged today all by my lonesome and don't recall making a single anvil tap; where as when demoing I do make "extraneous" taps. I think it's because when demoing I'm splitting my concentration with the audience and so need the "down time" at times. I worked with light, medium and heavy hammers so it wasn't hammer dependent. I made some chilies, a bottle opener from a section of buggy tyre, a curved chisel to do the ends of the tyre, adjusted a section of sq tubing to fit an anvil's hardy hole to be welded on a large heavy piece of sq tubing to make a "bridge" for working forks and things too narrow for the anvil heel---tweaking S hooks, made a couple of slips/shims to tighten up the hardy hole for one of my tools that was build for a different anvil, etc....So a range of tasks of various but generally not too complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Ah, thats what is missing from cheistmas around here! Luminaries and strings of dried chilies!! So lets see the chillies, TP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I suppose that because you held up your 37 years of teaching as some sort of validation of your position, I assumed you were teaching your students to tap, otherwise, why mention your 37 years of teaching at all. Sorry I couldn't be bothered to add up the years since 1972. I guess because you have been smithing longer than I have and apparently tapping your anvil needlessly for all that time, that you must be correct. I am going out to the shop right now to practice my anvil tapping....and all this time I thought I was supposed to be hitting the hot steel. Never too old to learn something new. Why the negativity? You were the one who brought up the "time" factor. My original post way back when stated that "it just seemed a natural motion (when turning or relocating the stock)". If one taps between strikes, so be it. If one does not, fine. To each his own. And as stated above, I demoed for my students various forging techniques, I let them learn what worked for them the best, whatever that may be. I will not return to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think there is a quote from "Gone with the Wind" that covers this quite well; "Frankly My Dear I Don't Give _ ____"! Will leave the last couple words out to hopefully cover the rules.Hate to see an important subject like wearing safety glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I did not get to chime in on the original idea the thread was created for. I do tap, and if it bothers you, go away, it's fine with me. I'm a hobbyist, and as such, have not built up the muscles a professional would. And I grip the handle too hard, so I have trained myself, with rhythm, to relase the grip after 3-4 blows, this may not be as efficient as a pro would be, but again, I do it for the pure joy of it, not for profit. And it really makes a difference to my hand and forearm, so to all non tappers, may the Lord bless your efforts, and hopefully for those who apparently are intolerant of tapping, may he show you some grace, may you absorb some of it, and then when tapping starts to get under your skin, may that grace manifest itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Greetings Mike, At your demo on the 7th of Feb I would love to have my friend the Frogman ( a professional drummer) with me to evaluate your tapping skills . I am sure we would both agree it is true music to our ears... Keep up the great work. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! ....do-wap, do-wap, do-wap, do-wap, do-wap, do-wap. I'd love to come over. I should bring AJC along and and make a weekend of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That would be TOOO much fun... I will have to check with my doctor to see if my heart is healthy enough for such an experience. You know the commercial. LOL Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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