KeithSS

Dropped 25# little giant when moving

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While trying to get my Canadian little giant in the back of my van, I was in a hurry and by myself I didn't secure the strap to the top of the fork lift. While I was leaning it on the floor the strap slipped off and she fell on the clutch hub and it broke it 3 pieces. The crank was not bent or anything else.
The belt drive is exactly 10" across 1/2" thick and 3"1/4"across,all cast iron.
I was hoping someone would have an idea on how to fix it or does any one have this part around they want to sell?
Keith s
Here are 2 pictures.

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Oh man sorry to hear that , I just moved my 50lb'r last week , hope you can find some replacement parts

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That is a bad break - I am generally an advocate for repair over replacement but I think this one is toast. Good luck in finding one.

On the other hand, you might be able to tack it back together by brazing then press a steel sleeve over the repair as a safety measure against it coming apart in operation. A slightly larger diameter will increase the RPM's but probably not to excess.

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Brazing would be your only solution for repair. Or- it may be possible to glue it back together long enough to get a pattern made to cast a new one.

 

I have repairs as daunting on an old beaudry #6. Cracks and lost material everywhere. We're going to put about ten bags of charcoal inside of her, light it and come back in a day or two to begin the repairs.

 

Lots of folks will say Nickel rod it but that is a only a crutch.  Grey iron is best brazed. Nickel works well on ductile iron but with the amount of preheat you need you might as well braze.

 

With the modern casting processes I've been told they can scan my broken springbox on the beaudry and literally make a 3D model of it for a pattern.  It's kindof similar to the way they make rubber stamps I'm told.

 

Good luck whatever you wind up doing!

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Parts are available from the company that Sid Suedmeier started and ran for a long time. My understanding is another fellow has taken over, http://www.littlegianthammer.com/

 

Sometimes xxxx happens. If you can't braze it back together, buy one from Little Giant Company.

 

Neil

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Braising is what I will do to hold it in place . I will need to find a piece of 10" x 3 1/4"steel pipe to put over old pulley ,then drill and tap into cast,to fold it together .
I took Sids class a few years ago , strange I brought the parts to ask his opinion of them , he said they all looked ok but, you can't get this part anymore.(the part I broke.)

The saying ; Haste makes Waste is a reality to me now. I think I have done my very best work when I've taken my time.

Do you know where I can buy a piece of steel pipe this size- 10" ID. X 3:1/4" wide x 1/8"-1/4" or any smaller thickness?

(My other thought was to grind the rest of the broken pulley off and use the hub for a pulley? Any thoughts on that idea?)

Thanks for your help and ideas.

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Well at least you didn't drop it on *someone*!  Check out the replacement part prices and also check around as sometimes "basket case" hammers can be found cheaper than parts!

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You can't really make it out of thin wall pipe. The pulley needs a slight crown to keep the belt on. 

Best options in order of bestness; 

 

 

Repair old pulley. There is no reason in the world not to repair this pulley that I can think of. Braze is more than strong enough and actually easier than nickel if you are good at it. If not, find someone who is. 

 

. Flat belt pulleys are still made and sold by companies such as Browning, Dodge and Martin (just 3 examples.) get the closest you can and modifiy it to fit. 

Lastly, find a retired hobby machinist in your area and fabricate a new one. 

 

I would like to see some good pictures

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Here you might have to think outside the box a bit.....you need someone with a ring roller to roll you a ring out of 1/4" flat bar. It will have enough 'meat' to have the edge reduce by 50% on a lathe to give you a crown. The alternative is to use a thick wall pipe of a larger diameter cut out a bit and use truck(as it lorry) tie-downs to ratchet the diameter Down and stitch weld the pipe . All of this after you have braised up the broken casting. If you have a fit that is not tight enough cut a 4mm deep cut across the 'ring' then fill the groove with a stainless steel weld this will 'shrink' the ring repeat this at regular increments till you have a snug fit. Remember the grind off/down  the weld prior to sticking this in the lathe to machine the crown.

 

Good luck

 

Ian

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Sorry I typed 'as in lorry' as some call a pick-up(ute) a truck , I mean use  5ton plus ratchets. :D

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Yes I also think it is repairable. Do you think a minumum of 1/8" wall thickness would hold if screwed together and braised ?
I have brazed steel but not cast, I know it must be preheated ,should I grind a channel around the cracks to have more brass adheishion ?
Here are more pictures

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post-23695-0-75293900-1400702071_thumb.j

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I don't think the strength of the 1/8" is the issue , to get the belt to track you need a bit of a crown this is easy on a lathe if you have material to machine off ie. Thicker stock...

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Get someone to roll it. Any metal shop worth it's salt will have a three roll or plate roller.. My Ercolina will roll 4x.75 on the flat. If all else fails I might me able to roll one for you.

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I just looked in my Little Giant parts catalogue for pulley's. "Not Available" for either 25 or 50 pound size. I'd still call them to see if they have one from a non rebuildable frame. 408-873-6603 David Sloan is the parts manager now.

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Thanks for the info and offer. I'm going tomorrow to a machine shop where a couple of old timers work. Hoping they will like a challenge. They may have some material that may also work.

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Yes I also think it is repairable. Do you think a minumum of 1/8" wall thickness would hold if screwed together and braised ?
I have brazed steel but not cast, I know it must be preheated ,should I grind a channel around the cracks to have more brass adheishion ?
Here are more pictures

It's not that hard of a repair. Not seeing the need for a ring. 

Really don't feel like typing out all the instructions as to how to properly braze it, I have done that so many times here. 

 

I guess I will give you the basics and let the other guys fill in what I miss ( I am on drugs, just had heart surgery)

 

All cracks must be veed . 

I would fix this as two assmblies, the first one being the mass of brocken pieces comprising the one side. For this you should use nickel rod for a reason we will cover later. 

The best way to vee the cracks is with a good sized carbide cutter in a die grinder. Other than a cold chisel this will give the least smearing of free carbon over the surface to be adhered to.

In this particular case I highly recomend this method of veeing. Your vees should run to the very bottom of the crack, but not remove any material which would guide you in positioning the pieces.

Deep vees are crucial since you will be removing ALL of the weldment or braze above the surface. 

 

Having prepared enough ofn the parts that a partial asembly can be made, you will need to prepare the following;

1. a place to to work. A few firebricks on a steel table would be great. I have used a bed of DRY sand in a shallow baking tray. You can't have the table stealing all your heat. 

2. A means to cool the item very slowly. Letting a fire die out in a wood stove (with the part inside) is the best. Next best is an ashcan a little more than half full of wood ash. Next would be vermiculite, followed by lime, then sand and if nothing else at all were available, rockwool. YOU MUST COOL THE PARTS SLOWLY AFTER JOINING. 

3. A means of preheating, torch, forge, woodstove, fire on the ground, whatever. Get it to black heat or slightly higher but not much.

 

Having screwed bolted or wired the parts into virtually perfect posistion weld with 99% nickel rod (I prefer 1/8th inch)

 

Make straight small tacks 1/2" long. join the first two pieces with two tacks, then ad another piece with two tack until your entire sub asenmbly is made. Lightly peen each tak as soon as possible after you raise your hood. When all tacked up, start skip welding the whole thing. Do your best to spread out the welds over the whole thing. Make 1" long straight small beads. Peen after every bead, as the weld is hardening nto prevent shrinking.  Keep doing so until the entire thing is welded everywhere. Then continue until the vees are all filled to the top. 

 

If you were able to do this all at once, place the still very hot item in your slow cooling area. Remember slow cooling is critical. 

 

Next you will repeat, only this time you can braze if you choose to, because the brazing heat will not melt the nickel causing your subassemblly to fall apart. 

 

Repaet everthing above, but since you will need a torch for brazing you can preheat with that. 

 

This time, though, because you are reconnecting a circle, it is imperative that the slow cooling aspect goes perfectly. I suggest bulidng a campstyle fire on the ground if you don't have a woodstove.

 

Chock it up well, get a good bed of coals, drop your part on there, add more logs, let it burn, then let it burn out on it's own. This will equalize the heat, then the stresses, then the unit will slowly cool, remaining the same temp through out, the whole time of cooling. The extra and coals will burn down to ash and aid in the cooling. 

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If you need more specific welding info, go to artmetal.com and look under new posts. I wrote an article there called "How to weld Cast Iron" It may be a few pages back by now, but you will find it in a minute. 

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I am very sorry to hear it broke I think if you find an old guy that can braze you will be Ok. I always instructed the young guys to insert a tapered punch in the hole of the fork to keep the belt from slipping. When I retired I left them my old dirty strap but not my tapered punch. 

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I think you posted that this a Canadian Giant as in Jardine? if it is they are quite a bit different than a Little Giant. You will have to repair as spares are unlikely.

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Take off  all the old pulley center it up in a lathe turn a shoulder to bolt a 2 groove v-belt pulley. I have fixed 2 this way it's a good fix

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Yes it is a jardin.

Artist I read your post on welding cast iron. Much more to it then realized.

I did think about taking off the rest of the pulley and just getting smaller belts.

Peacock ; I like the new pulley shouldered up and bolted on.

Where is a place to get a 2 groove pulley from like that?

Would you happen to have a picture of the other side of the pulley?
I'm wondering if I have enough metal to turn a shoulder into?
Thank you ,
Keith

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I think it maybe cheaper to fix it like peacock posted. Its just locating the right size pulley. I checked ebay And surplus Center , I just need to figure out exactly the best way to get it to fit the hub or clutch.

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Found a guy who is going to weld it for me. Let you know how it turns out.
Thanks for all your help.
Keith

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