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Abeaty1387

a question about Damascus.

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Very Big Grin   (or Vacuous Baffled Grimace, Vitreously Bottled Grape, etc)

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Found a local blacksmith about 3 miles away. Stopped by and talked to him for awhile (took coffee and some snacks) and talked to him about my project. He was curious about what results would come of it so he invited to do it at his shop using his gas forge and press so I could get the best results. You blacksmiths never cease to amaze me. Looking forward to posting the results once we can get a day set up at his shop

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One can also leave the rod in the freezer over night and give the square block a good heating before putting them together the frozen rod in theory would them slide in much like a Bearing race in a hub .  just a thought .

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I did think about that and asked the wife but she said if I put "THAT CRAP" in her oven I'll be joining it in there lol. I remember from school that heating metal allows for expansion and that was my first choice but the wife made me hammer it in

 

You don't have a toaster oven in the shop! <GASP!>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Chilling the inserts works but being colder than ambient can invite condensation though that may not make any difference. When Dad and I shrunk fit we heated the hole to the 200-300f range and chilled the insert in dry ice and alcohol make that in the -80-90f range but Dad was prone to make his interference fits in the 9-10 thousandths range.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Found a local blacksmith about 3 miles away. Stopped by and talked to him for awhile (took coffee and some snacks) and talked to him about my project. He was curious about what results would come of it so he invited to do it at his shop using his gas forge and press so I could get the best results. You blacksmiths never cease to amaze me. Looking forward to posting the results once we can get a day set up at his shop

Wadya mean YOU blacksmiths? You joined the club all on your own, it won't be long and you'll be sharing the addiction with innocents yourownself. Seriously, you're "sharing" new ideas and posting results already, infecting blacksmiths and cub blacksmiths with new fangled ideas in your area and all over the world.

 

I think we should start calling you, "YouBlacksmith." <grin>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Chilling the inserts works but being colder than ambient can invite condensation though that may not make any difference. When Dad and I shrunk fit we heated the hole to the 200-300f range and chilled the insert in dry ice and alcohol make that in the -80-90f range but Dad was prone to make his interference fits in the 9-10 thousandths range.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Wadya mean YOU blacksmiths? You joined the club all on your own, it won't be long and you'll be sharing the addiction with innocents yourownself. Seriously, you're "sharing" new ideas and posting results already, infecting blacksmiths and cub blacksmiths with new fangled ideas in your area and all over the world.

 

I think we should start calling you, "YouBlacksmith." <grin>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

Amen Frosty You Blacksmiths ! are Very Correct ! He is just like one of US ! Grinning like a Possum .

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I don't consider myself has a blacksmith because I have yet to learn one tenth of what most of you know. But its my nature to always challenge the way things are done and can be done. I doubt I'm the first to try this but its new to me. The local smith I was talking to said if this creates a decent quality Damascus he believes that using this method can create "controlled Damascus" by that he means only certain parts of the steel would become Damascus thus creating a knife with the edge being the only part of it that's Damascus would be possible

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I don't consider myself a "real" blacksmith because I've never made a living at it. Oh okay, I'm not a professional blacksmith but there's stuff the real blacksmiths know how to do, I don't! GASP!

 

Get used to that little fact of life. Iron and steel are limited only be the imagination of humankind, all of us could spend the rest of our lives learning and all put together we wouldn't know it all. I think of it as a smorgasbord I won't live long enough to get a sniff of a sample of a fraction.

 

Just because I sometimes get semantic, mostly for the sake of communications but sometimes because. Damascus isn't what you're messing with. You're attempting a pattern welded billet. Damascus was a type of refined steel that is the origin f the name of the city and means, "of the mark." Damask meaning "the mark". The ore deposits Damascus steel were made from were high in vanadium and the process made the ore into superlative steel, FAR in advance of what was being made in the western world. The deposits were played out a long time ago, maybe centuries so to be finicky almost nobody is making "Damascus" steel.

 

That said, Damascus is a common term used to describe pattern welded steel blades. There are folk who are refining ore into blade billets in the fashion of the ancients. Our own Ric Furrer being one of note. And seeing as how many guys who actually know how to do the thing and are historians I expect I'll be corrected any time now.

 

Oh, on a real world note, I may say darned near anything here, don't let it have you correcting a fellow willing to show you how to do things in his shop. His shop, his rules, were I visiting I'd accept most any designation once I understood what was being said. I take, "controlling the Damascus" to mean controlling the pattern and that's a high art. I seriously regret not buying a book I thumbed through in a local book store decades ago by the name of "The Gun." (I think.) It ran the history of guns from bamboo tubes shooting darts up to vulcan mini guns. There had to be a couple hundred pages of "damascus" pattern barrels with "how tos" for patterns. A couple hundred years ago guys were welding: flowers, clouds, mountains, dogs, birds, names, prayers and more unbelievable stuff in the patterns of shotgun barrels. I wasn't into smithing beyond occasionally hammering out a chain link ring, etc. and it wasn's such good reading so I let it lay. Been regretting that decision for a looooong time. I don't even remember the right name, "Gun" is what sticks in my mind along with some incredible pictures. <sigh>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Its his shop and his tools and he was nice enough to allow me to use his space. If he tells me that the sky is yellow while I'm there I wouldn't dream of correcting him. I'm really hoping I can manage well enough through the whole process that I can ask him about an apprenticeship. He said something about needing a extra set of hands around the shop to clean and help with heavy projects and I'd really like to be that extra set of hands

Frosty if you ever manage to remember the name of that book let me know. My cousins wife works in a book recycling factory and when ever gun or blade books pop up she sends them my way.(blacksmithing books are on that list now also) if it happens to come to me I'd be happy to send it your direction free of charge

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One question i have is why are you calling this damscus ?  so far I see you are talking about forge welding a rod into a hole in a  square?  what is the next step for this ?

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I thought it would produce damascus. It's not just one rod it's a few holes drilled in square stock then fit with another type of steel to create layers. I'm not sure if it will work or not that's why I asked the question at the start of the post.

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The way that many 'real' knifemakers test trial patterns is to go buy a bunch of children's modeling clay in different colors, and try them out. 

 

When all the colors are smooshed into a greyish glob, it is still useful to try out designs in homogeneous steel. (Hmm, if I take a RR spike, can I draw it out 18" and make a steak turner with a rubik's cube handle???)

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