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Abeaty1387

a question about Damascus.

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I have been able to forge weld a few things and wanted to try making Damascus. My idea was to buy a square bar stock of 01 drill a hole down the center and then fill said hole with a round bar stock of 15n-20. My question is would this work? Has it ever been attempted? I've googled it but came up empty

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The immidiate likely problem is that as you forge the top and bottom to weld the center the sides are being moved away from the weld. You could better do this weld in a top and bottom v swedge. I expect it would still be easier to just weld a stack. It might be good to walk before you run.

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Seriously..have you drilled a  piece of sq stock length wise?  easy task if you have a lathe or as serious drill press and vise...

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I'm lucky enough to have a brother who works in a machine shop. He will be drilling it tomorrow. Thanks metal for the reply my thoughts were that this way might eliminate some scale build up. Not trying to run just trying to be innovative I guess.

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It's a form of "can" welding. (I think can is the right term) This is a process where you typically fill a piece of pipe, usually sq. with the alloys you want in the billet. The mild steel canister has a higher melting/welding temp than the higher carbon billet components and will shield it from air.

 

What you're proposing is doable, very. It's a little backwards though putting the high carbon steel on the outside but it should work.

 

Clean the insert steels nice and shiny and give them a thin coat of oil, "Three in One" works nicely but guys are using everything from diesel fuel to gear oil. The oil will burn before the steel comes to fast oxidizing temps and will scavenge the oxy out of any rust or scale that does form leaving a very thin layer of unburnt carbon to get any oxy that gets in.

 

Last but not least, pose pics!

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yes it has been done, but that does not mean you did not come up with the technique on your own.

I encourage you to explore what you invent and learn from the act. Most folk do not do past the concept stage and I encourage you to do so.

 

Ric

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Thanks every I will post pics has I move along with it. Frosty I should use 15n-20 on the outside and 01 on the in side? I also had him drill a second square bar stock but this one has a hole drilled down the center then 4 holes drilled along the sides. I thought of cutting cable and 15n20 and alternating the holes with them would create a one of a kind pattern. I know I'm new to this but the beauty of Damascus is always eating at my mind.

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First of all: what do you plan to do with it?   Making ornamental items allow for differing alloys and arrangements than wanting to make a blade from it.

 

Even making a blade allows for a lot of different variations---look through how the japanese  would put swords together of how the late migration/early medieval ages did. (The Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons"  Tylecote and Gilmour has one western european sword example that IIRC had 13 pieces welded together 5 of them being pattern welded billets)

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It won't be used for anything functional and if it turns out nicely I might donate it to a bladesmith just so it can be used to make something beautiful. This is my version of sink or swim either I'll succeed and something beautiful will be created or I'll fail and try again until I get it right

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I can't tell you how to order the stock in your billet. I'm not a blade guy, I have a near eidetic memory for the written word and read a lot. I've done a little billet work but nothing like what you propose.

 

Find out what Ric, Rich, Thomas, Steve, think. Ask the bladesmith guys what they think of the order of stock in your billet. I have a book knowledge, they have hands on knowledge. Getting this stuff right is a balance.

 

Take Ric's advice to heart and experiment. It's your idea, run with it. Frankly I don't know of anyone else who's thought of piercing a bar lengthwise and inserting different stock for a billet. Take notes and pics.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I have mixed 5 steels and made a super nice billet out of it . However, NOT the way you are going about it. Do I believe it is possible/ plausible heill Yes ! with one taking time and effort to consider they may fail and be not discouraged by the "Nay Sayers" ( there are none as of yet) ****Take "Very Detail Notes & Photos along the way  so you can replicate it again" ! ! should any one combination work well ****  trust me you will be very thankful you did later .

 

I wish you well and should you need any help you have my info and I am only a call away , I will follow along to see your progress with this project . I love a good Challenge , Good Luck Brother !    

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I know this is very doable. consider how a nut or collar is welded to a shaft. do it the same way or your "hole" will grow around the shaft with forging and you will have cold shuts.

if after drilling your hole you cut thru longitudinally on one side, then forgeweld, you should have no problem.

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Having seen a blade that was welded up out of lathe swarf at quad-State one year and seen Billy Merritt's scrapmascus display several times and  lot of explosive welded and repousse art. I'd have to say that a lot of strange stuff can be welded together---I threw a section of nickel plated spring steel split ring maille in a billet once myself. And did a billet of lawnmower control cable...

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Thanks everyone. If weather permits it I will be starting tomorrow. Going to clean the face of the square bar stock and clean the rod that will be inserted into it. After that I'll take the first set of pics. Then I'm going to weld the hole shut and give it some heat. Hopefully everything will go well and I will have some more pics to share with you guys. Again thanks for all the support and advice. I will be giving you a call tomorrow Robert to get some advise has I start.

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I know it's too late for this billet but it occurred to me that if you heated the drilled bar in the oven and chilled the inserts in say dry ice they could be  inserted for an interference fit and no possibility of air or corrosion. Drill holes a few thousandths too small for the rods being inserted, only the differences in thermal expansion rates would allow insertion. You'd have to do it FAST though.

 

Heck, get them polished enough and I'll bet you could get it to weld cold.

 

Great idea, you've really got my juices flowing.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I was already ahead of you frosty the hole I had drilled is just a tad to small for the rod so it was hammered in after it was polished to make sure most oxy build up could be eliminated. Glad at least I think like most of you real smiths.

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I was already ahead of you frosty the hole I had drilled is just a tad to small for the rod so it was hammered in after it was polished to make sure most oxy build up could be eliminated. Glad at least I think like most of you real smiths.

 

HEY, you're too new at this to be a jump ahead of me! <VBG> If you let it (the hole) soak in a 200f oven a while the rod will slide in like butter just be quick about it.

 

You sooooo to fit in here.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I did think about that and asked the wife but she said if I put "THAT CRAP" in her oven I'll be joining it in there lol. I remember from school that heating metal allows for expansion and that was my first choice but the wife made me hammer it in

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Where are you getting 15n20 in round stock? I have never heard of that, although that does not mean anything. Be sure of your materials because it would be a shame to weld two steels that are so similar that there is little or any contrast in the etch. 

 

Good luck, looking forward to pics. 

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