Is my Anvil any good?

[oldplowtruck]

Don't worry about hurting my feelings..

 

Cubicle dwelling techno-dweeb looking for more back-to basics skills, piecing together a forge to do some blades, small hardware, etc. I just bought this Anvil, my first, after searching for a couple of years and finding nothing-nothing I could afford anyway. The guy I bought it from is not a smith but a tool collector, had a ton of old tools and about a dozen anvils.

 

He said it was  Hay-Budden, but now that I look for the marks, I don't see them. It has 141 pretty clearly stamped on one side, and 097 up by the heel. Serial number may be 4365 or 4355, or maybe something else entirely. 

 

My main concern is the what I guess are chisel marks and 1. if they will affect my work and 2, if it means the top has lost its hardness. He said I could grind them off with flap disk. The top is sagged in the middle about 1/8 inch when looking at with framing square going from end to end. From side to side it is very flat.

 

I am not real concerned about the edge chips at this point.

 

It has a nice bounce and a nice clear ring, except for the ring when tapping way back on the heel sounds sort of distorted, but it is not strapped down at this point. I hope that does not indicate a crack somewhere.

 

The white stuff is flour as someone suggested to help reading the numbers.

 

Anyway, I am open to any opinions good or bad, feel free to tell me I got ripped off if that is what you think. The guy seemed to be on the up and up. I was originally thinking to get a slightly smaller anvil with a perfect top but it sounded dead. 

 

Thanks, Rick

 

 

[njanvilman]

It does look like a HB.  The weight is in the right place, as are the faint serial numbers.  The shape also looks correct.  You did not tell us what you paid, so we cannot give you an opinion on the deal.

 

Do not grind out the marks.  Just begin to use it.  Eventually a clean area will be created from the pounding.  The face appears to be flat and intact.  That is the most important thing.

 

Many smiths have started with much less. 

[Dan C]

Looks fine by me, though you didn't say how much it weighs and what you paid for it.  Regardless looks like there's still plenty of life in her.  The face on my anvil isn't perfect either but rarely do I notice the small imperfections and like yours my heel is a little dead as someone at some point used it as a cutting table for a torch.  Time to put that one back to work!

 

Actually come to think of it, I don't think that one is useable at all.  Please ship it down here to Texas so I could put it out to pasture in my garage.  She'll be chained, beaten and fed hot steel as an anvil should be.

[ThomasPowers]

An easy check is to turn it over and look at the bottom the HB's are well known for their Hourglass shaped indentation---though on the early ones it was quite shallow and may wear away to flat.

[oldplowtruck]

 

Guys, thanks for the replies. And the encouragement. I paid about three hundred for it. I know this is over what a seasoned smith would pay for this but as I said I had been looking for so long when I found this guy I felt like I needed to get one. I also bought a vise (not a post vise) and a peavey from him, so the price is not exact as I haggled a bit on al the items.

 

The weight as stamped is 141, I think he had it marked at 139 or something and he went on about how I picked the 'cadillac of anvils' although I would get a caddy with a few less dings in it. Really I don't care a whit about the appearance as long as it is not a dud. Attached a pic from the bottom.

 

Thanks again, for the feedback, Rick

[oldplowtruck]

Forgot to add, I will resist the urge to grind on it but is a wire brush cup on a drill ok? 

 

Also does anyone think the chisel marks could be a by product of softening of the top at some point due to overheating?

[George Geist]

Nice anvil. Would kinda like to chain, beat and torture the fool that didn't use a chisel plate on it :angry:

George

[oldplowtruck]

  She'll be chained, beaten and fed hot steel as an anvil should be.

Don't go putting ideas into my head. 

[oldplowtruck]

I like the idea that good honest use will improve the condition as nj said. 

 

The seller has a pretty slick double horned french anvil for sale -check VT craigslist. But I didn't have $625 to part with! You can see some of the other anvils in his post.

 

Thanks again everyone, I like you guys already. Rick

[rustyanchor]

Rick,

I would say with out a doubt it is a post 1908 HB by the shape of it, I have a 1919 150lb HB that is a dead ringer for it. From AIA, it is a 3rd style HB 2 piece anvil with a tool steel top welded to a mild steel or wrought iron base.

 

Should be a good anvil for you.

 

Mark

[Dan C]

Wire brush and boiled linseed oil will make her all purty, though just putting her back to work cleans up the face in no time.  Good decision on not grinding the face.  I used to want to repair mine until I used her for a year and realized there's no point, works just fine as is.  I wouldn't worry about the face being soft if you have good rebound.

[Frank Turley]

Beautiful anvil. Now you can be a low tek-head. :)

[Fatfudd]

I know this is heresy but I have worked over several of the third style Hay Budden anvils (same as yours) that had pretty yucky faces. Since the whole top half is tool steel you can skim off a few thousands and have a much better anvil and not really lose any of the rebound. That said, it is a good idea to use what you have for a while before doing my easy fix. If it works as is, leave it alone.

 

If the cut marks and depression turn out to be a problem then here's what I do. Get a hand belt sander like you would use for sanding wood and get some good grade aluminum oxide sanding belts starting with about 100 grit. Make sure you remove the dust collector bag. Slowly and as evenly as you can sand the entire surface. Use a straight edge to constantly check the surface of the face. The belt sander will true the face and get rid of the depression.  I usually take the face down until I get close to as smooth as I want and then move to a 180 or 220 grit belt. I go after the face with the finer grits only enough to remove the deeper scratches left  from the coarser belt and then move to a finer grit. I usually will finish with a 300+ grit wet/dry by hand wrped on a thick piece of FLAT metal which gets my face very smooth. I then start using the anvil.

 

You have to be careful at first, even though the rebound is still good/excellent, hammer marks will easily show if you miss your target. After a few months the face will work harden and you'll have an excellent, like new, anvil. I have one that had almost 1/4" removed and it has been used by 3 successive smiths over many many years and is still one of my prime shop anvils.

 

Also if you have a badly pounded out overhang on the edges you can remove that with the belt sander too.

Seems like you got a very good deal!

[VaughnT]

Looks like a great anvil, Rick.  Don't worry about doing any modifications to it until you have a solid year of forging on it and can see with an experienced eye where you really do need to do something.  

 

Right now, your skill level is going to do as much damage to the ironwork as the anvil ever could, and that's just the nature of the beast.

 

You're starting on a journey that can last you the rest of your life.  Learn, enjoy, share.

[oldplowtruck]

NJAnvilMan, Dan C, Thomas, George, RustyAnchor (Mark). Frank, FatFudd, Vaughn

 

Your responses are more than I could wish for, you are all so generous with your time and kind words. I am encouraged now to go forth with fire and iron, and make lots of mistakes.. And I think I will go visit my tool dealer again, he had a few bins of hammers, tongs, etc. 

 

Rick

[ThomasPowers]

I have an HB that was stored in an unheated shed near a swampy stream for over 50 years.  The face was covered with fine pitting from condensation rusting.  I wire brushed off the loose rust and started using it. Scale is an abrasive and the area around the sweet spot is pretty much polished out now---the areas that get used the most will clean up the best.

 

The ball bearing test is the best way to judge face hardness "in the field".

[rustyanchor]

Rick,

A few more tid-bits on your anvil: All the info I am giving is from AIA; Richard Postman spent years collecting information on anvils and has been kind enough to enlighten the rest of us!

If your SN is a 4 digit SN your anvil was made in 1918, there should be an A in front of the numbers. HB reset their SNs after they hit 250,000 in 1917.

The 097 on the heel is believed to be a steel batch tracking number. Since HB went out of business in the late 20's, I think we are stuck with the anvils.

 

You were asking if the chisel marks might be from a softened top, if your rebound is good with a ball bearing, your top is still hard. More than likley the chisel marks are from a condition common to old anvils and tools called "IDIOT WITHOUT A CLUE; BUT WITH A TOOL-ITIS"

My anvil has some torch cuts on the edges from the same idiot condition but it still is a fine anvil that will be around long after I am gone. 

 

Hope it adds some personal value to your anvil.

 

Mark

[oldplowtruck]

Mark, that is really good info. What I thought was a tilted four is probably an A as you say. I need one of those magic movie computers where they say 'enhance' and suddenly you can read the brand of the crook's eyeglasses.I am building a little firebrick forge right now, so I can heat some metal. And pound away. Don't have any bearings handy to try the bounce test just yet.

 

Took a 2 day class at our Lake Champlain Maritime Museum last summer (they have an excellent shop and teaching area all donated by this one guy), and we completed one knife made from a steel blank and started playing with another, the second being from a railroad spike. So I think I will mess with that one first.

 

Attached pic of serial number area..

 

 

Thanks, Rick

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Rick glad to have you.

 

The rebound test, "bearing test" is easily done with a small hammer. The method is to see how much a hard steel object will bounce back (rebound) on impact. the harder the steel the more it'll rebound. A hammer works just fine even if it's not as easy to judge. Simply hold your wrist above the anvil and give the hammer a light blow to the face. Eyeball how far back up it bounces. More than say 80% is a good anvil face, less than 60% and it's damaged or a poor anvil to begin with.

 

If it has a high incidence of rebound, say 95% or higher it may be brittle so take a new sharp file and stroke it lightly on the face. If it skates, won't cut, the face might be brittle so you have to be very careful to NOT strike the edges with the hammer. Striking hot steel is a different matter, hot steel acts as a cushion so there is little or no shock imparted to the anvil so it's not going to chip the edges.

 

If you run into something that needs a clean face it's easy to just make a flat bottom tool. Bottom tools are often called hardies but a hardy is the hot or cold chisel bottom tool that fits in the hardy hole (square hole in the heal). Enough semantic nit picking. All you need do is put a square shank on a flat piece of steel and let that be the clean shiny face for the finish work on that project.

 

You can make any specialty tool you want for the hardy hole or a saddle, saddles being tools that fit across the anvil's face and has clips or welded on or bent over sides that fit over the anvil's edges to keep the tool in place. Cutting plates are probably the most common saddle tools.

 

Once you get in the swing of this you'll be coming up with all kinds of nifty and often silly tools, some useful some not, on your own.

 

I hope you like the learning curve, blacksmithing is an endless, lifelong trip. Enjoy the ride.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[oldplowtruck]

Thanks Frosty, those are good tips all. I have not figured out exactly where it is rebounding but I will take a closer look based on your descriptions.

 

Looking forward to squishing some hot metal on it.

 

Rick