BIGGUNDOCTOR

weight of a Champion power hammer

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I have a "0" Champion and it weighed about 800 lbs.  35 lb hammer.  I believe the "1" is about 60 lb, so I would guess the weight at around 1200 lb.   Easy load for any pickup truck.

 

Check the leaf springs for cracks too.  They are a pretty simple hammer.  Once set up and adjusted, my only prep each use is lots of oil on the bearings, ways, and pivits...all moving parts.  Oil is cheap.

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Which Champion do you mean? The Beaudry or the Lancaster Blower & Forge model.

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Greetings Big,

 

The Champion book says   #1 1325 lbs     #1E  ( electric )  1620 lbs...  

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

 

Jim

 

Mine...

post-30666-0-00541900-1393592930_thumb.p

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The electric has a large cast iron motor mount that's pivoted near the base of the hammer that adds weight though I'm guessing that that weight includes the old heavy motor as well

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Most of the damaged Champions I've seen have been cracked at the front of the lower dovetail.  Check carefully in that zone for cracks.  In general thou these are great little hammers.  

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My wife just told me she's found someone who might be able to run power to my shop----I don't think she realizes how having my two #1 champions powered up would change my prioritization of holding down a job 200 miles from my shop...

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Thanks guys! I stumbled across one for sale by a retired knife maker. It was offered for $3,000 which is a bit out of my price range. Then I got an email the other day that stated, if you are interested just make an offer, it is just in my way now.

I really wasn't in the process of looking for a power hammer, but this may be a one of those fortuitous moments that come along every once in awhile. I have to see if he has a way to load onto my trailer, figure cost of the trip there, and back, etc...then make an offer.

It looks like Jims, but it has had an angle iron motor mount added with the motor on top.

Those of you that own one, how do you like it, and are there any things about them that you don't like?

For someone who has never run a power hammer, what size stock can I expect this hammer to be able to handle? What is the learning curve for on of these? And what would be a suggested foundation be? I don't have an inside shop, so would a series of ties bolted together, and sunk in the ground be feasible? Rarely rains here in the desert-driest one in the USA.

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Yes you can bolt and screw together a large pad of heavy timbers. And just set it on the ground or sink it in the dirt some. I would think you would be able to reasonably forge 1" sq bar with a 30lb champion. I would not exspect to work that size all day long everyday. But surely you could draw tapers and general shape change bar that big.

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I have a 50lb, LIttle Giant that turns a bit slow but still does a BUNCH of work. It's base is 4"x12" through bolted edge to edge together and just sits on my concrete floor. It'd walk around but it's pinned into a gozinta so all it can do is wobble.

 

I oil mine with chainsaw bar oil with a couple jiggers worth of DuraLube in it. I just give it a couple squirts on the babbit mains and a few drops on the other lube points. The grease fittings get automotive chassis grease just a pump is all it takes. The bar oil is designed to be sticky enough to not get thrown off a chainsaw bar turning at speed and nothing on a LG urns fast enough to throw it off. The Dura Lube is really cool stuff it has a very high thin film strength so it lubricates even if dry. Good stuff.

 

I hauled mine home on a car hauler type trailer, no problems at all. I unloaded it with planks, rollers and my engine hoist. Stood it up with a come along right off the trailer. Tipped it off specifically. I positioned it with a pinch bar. If I had to I could've gotten it on the trailer with come alongs and a couple tires to cushion the fall onto the deck.

 

If it isn't too far just hire a wrecker. A good wrecker driver will have it slung faster than you can drink a soda and he'll position it exactly where you want it, access permitting of course.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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We own a champion #1 and it is a swell hammer to run, especially compared to my 50# LG. I would say that the Champ hits like a good well tuned 100#LG without a doubt in my mind. The factory brake is a nice benefit, especially with the right amount of tension to really make it grab. It has nice big dies too, as well as a lot of useable daylight for a mechanical hammer of it's size. We've used it for punching and it does well. It has a centered tup, so the use of combination dies will not harm it. 

 

I think my only complaint would be;

-the orientation of the hammer; Working from the side, it takes some getting used to-standing out of the way enough to miss the springs. Working from the front could work, though you would have to modify the treadle. 

 

Things to look out for-

-as mentioned, the sow block is cracked on a lot of these old machines from over tightening the bottom die. 

-worn ways (guides)

-any other cracks on the frame or other parts

-any missing parts-study pics of others machines and make sure yours is all there

 

lastly, something to keep in mind is extra expenses to get it running. This can include transportation/loading/unloading, restoration work and time, machining, new motor, motor mount, and various sundries/consumables. We got ours for a screaming good deal in darn nice shape, but even simple stuff like new wire and plug can run you $100 without blinking twice. Granted most of this work you can do yourself to get it up and running if it's not already, but time is something you need to account for too. 

 

 

Maybe Bill will chime in with his thoughts on the hammer. 

 

Aaron

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Unloading at my place isn't a problem as I have an 8,000# cap. Champ rough terrain 30' reach forklift.

Frosty, I hadn't thought of bar oil, that stuff is sticky. I worked for a guy who bought a rebuilt 25# LG,and after trying it out for awhile he asked me "What is this?" What "it" was , was cast iron shavings. The zerk fittings for the the dovetails had been installed wrong, and they got sheared off during operation. I told him he needed to get that thing greased, and oiled up fast. His response was "What? That is gonna make it all dirty. Is there another option?" He was a neat freak, and the thought of his clean machine all greasy and oily upset him. I just shook my head,and walked away.

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OK,I got to talk with him yesterday. May run up his way on Saturday to take a look at it. He mentioned that they didn't use it much, and when they did it was just standing on the dirt, not bolted down at all. He also mentioned that it was pretty violent when fully swinging. Now I am wondering if they have the right speed motor on it, not being bolted down doesn't help either. What speed motor should it have? How much does the belting run? He said the leather belt will need to be replaced.

By happenstance I also ran across a 50# LG that was disassembled for moving. He is asking a firm $1,000, and said that it is all there, except the motor. The babbit was good according to him, and that it could be assembled, and run as is.

Funny how things like this happen. Nothing at all, then they are everywhere you look Haha.

If I can swing a deal on the Champion, I may end up with both of them. The LG sounds like a no brainer at that price.

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It definetly needs to be fastened to some type of large base. Most any smaller mechanical hammer will through it self around if run full power and not bolted in place. I am sure my 50lb little giant would rock so hard it would compleatly tip over if run full power with out a base. Doing this would be very stupid and dangerous. I made a simple base from 5.5" by 5.5" wood beams laminated into a pad 3' by 4'. Furthermore I ran a number of bolt through the wood pad in to my common concrete floor. I would guess the floor is 4" to 5" thick. You could also get a large steel plate and bolt it to this with a piece of ply wood in between.
Sould be easy to set a smaller hammer like these two

Buy them and make them slap!
Good luck

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He mentioned that he has some railroad ties that he will throw in on the deal. Bolted together they should make a good foundation.

I was pretty amazed that anyone would run one of these not bolted down.

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This is mine once you get it running right you can do one hit with it. I was designed to be able to weld wagon rims 1"thick 4" wide 36" in Dia. The number one is 65 pound and they made one that had a 125# hammer. There is an other post you will find a lot of information there. I did a lot of research and posted it here with pictures of the restoration and the link to the pattern of the hammer


post-3564-0-58112400-1395356323_thumb.jp

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Ok it is a 2 hp 1725 rpm Boldor motor. I have seen people use an old transmission from a old car to gear it down. I did a side mount because of height. I just had a tow truck meet me and he loaded it in to the back of my pickup with no problems. easy $75.00 I ever spent but well worth every cent. replacement belts are not expensive Mc Master carr sells them easy to install. The dies are not the original. as far as a base mine is on a bunch of salt treated 2"x6" stock bolted together. there 4 holes in the base of the hammer and it is bolted to a concrete block. the motor stand is bolted to the block as well. With a few connecting arms holding the 2 parts together. It works well

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OK, you confirmed what I had thought about the motor RPM.

I'll check my McMaster catalog for the belting. We order a lot from them at work, so that is easy.

He has a forklift, and I have one at my end too, so loading/unloading should be easy.

I am going out to his place to take a look at it Saturday.

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Took a look at the hammer, and it has some issues like the rear babbit is obviously worn, and has about a 1/16" gap. The front bearing must have some wear too as it looked like it was moving some there too. The motor , and pulleys would also need to have some rework done to them. Other than that it sounded smooth, and the dovetails looked OK. His bottom dollar is $2,500 which is above my top dollar. He is interested in possibly trading for a vertical mill I have, so we will see what happens.

I may just go for the 50# Little Giant that I found for $1,000. Even with the further distance to that one I won't burn through $1,500 worth of diesel to get it.

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Wear on the machines being equal in my opinion the 65# Champion is almost twice the hammer of a 50# LG.  But any power hammer is better than no power hammer.  Do what you must, just be sure to bring one of them home and put it to work.  

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I have heard that the Champion will out work a Little Giant, why is that?

Also forgot to mention that the main spring leaf had been replaced. It is a little narrower than the rest of the stack, but looks to be of good quality.

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Sent him pics of the mill I have. It is a Concord vertical, step pulley, 8 speed, Bridgeport power feed on the table, table in great shape other than having surface rust on it. Just needs some cleaning after sitting outside for a few years. Sucks not having a garage, and those blue tarps only last a few months down here with the sun, and winds. Just found a sign company that sells old billboard wraps, now those will last a long time here. Going to get some to cover quite a few things around the property.

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