Crazy Ivan Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So I just started up a new job welding pressure vessels and there are LOADS of scrap pieces of 316L and 304L stainless steel as well as 51670 carbon steel. I was wondering about the usability of these in knife making. In reading what I could find, I know that both types of stainless are used for knives, but I am wondering about the "L" part of it. What I gather is that this letter designates that the material is stabilized for welding applications. Would that make any difference in forging? Also wondering if anyone here has worked with 51670 before. Its a pressure vessel graded carbon steel and I am not having much luck finding exact content of it. Any thoughts? -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 316 & 304 Good for guards, pommels, bolsters not a blade steel 51670---have to look that one up later---gotta go throw the anvils in the truck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you read knife making lessons we speakof the amount of carbon a steel needs for a blade...if you google the steels you listed youi can figure it out...5160 is a popular knife steel,,could that be a typo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 As Thomas noted, 300 series SS are austenitic and not capable of hardening. Could the other steel be A516-70? That is listed as a plate product for pressure vessels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 As the others have said, the stainless can be used for fixtures. The carbon steel is a boiler plate steel has enough carbon to cause problems welding and might even get a little hard, but not useful as a blade material at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you read knife making lessons we speakof the amount of carbon a steel needs for a blade...if you google the steels you listed you can figure it out...5160 is a popular knife steel,,could that be a typo? I have read the knife making lessons (time for a refresher!) and I remember it being around 50+ points of carbon for a harden-able blade. I should have caught that when I searched the make-up of the SS, but it slipped my attention this time. While googling, I saw a blurb about 316 being used in cutlery and it was not very specific so I assume it was referring to fixtures now. I am familiar with 5160 but that is not what I meant to say this time. 51670 is a boiler plate as specified by JM. I found it measures 95 on the Rockwell scale. It seems it will not make for an acceptable blade though. Looks like I'll just order steel from Aldo then. I was not really into knife making until I decided to try out making a damascus billet and found I really enjoy it. Can of worms opened haha. Thanks for the responses. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Be aware that there are multiple Rockwell scales - C seems to be most often used when describing cutlery but they are different ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The "L" stands for low carbon. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 The "L" stands for low carbon. Ric I was just reading about carbon steels and it stated that an "L" designates that lead has been added to the steel. In the examples it showed the L was always shown center (between the numbers). Does stainless steels use a different system? Or does this have to do with where the L was placed (at the end of the numbering rather then the center)? This is not to say that I don't believe you, more to clarify my own confusion after reading other information. Here is the link to what was reading from http://www.epsovens.com/heat-treat-headlines/understanding-the-carbon-steel-grade-system/4 the part about lead was approx 1/2 way down the page on my screen. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Lead is added to improve machining in some steels. The L in the stainless designation is for low carbon not lead. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Thats what I was thinking. Thank you for clarifying that for me. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Ivan, your link does not fully work. However, there have been several different systems used to designate steels and filler metals over the last century, and some are quite specific to an industry. In the world of welding, an E 3XX rod can have a series of additional suffixes added to designate things like low carbon, low hydrogen, etc. Typically, pipe, boiler and pressure vessel carbon steels are HSLA, (high strength - low alloy), so they do not harden. But they might make good fixtures, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I think the 51670 is probably A516 grade 70; 0.1 to 0.22% Carbon, so not likely to be of much use for knifemaking. 304 and 3i6 are used in table "cutlery" (flatware?), where their stainless properties are important, but their hardness is not. Edge-holding is not a major consideration when talking about knives to be used on ceramic plates. It is not even a minor consideration for spoons and forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 What shape is the stainless-rod,plate,thickness, etc. It may not be good for a blade, but a lot of other uses. 316 is used for acidic foods like tomatoes. We literally run through tons of 304 at work. I am using some of the bar ends as a grate in my fire pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 The plate/sheet we have are from 22ga to 5/16" thick, rounds are mainly 3/16" and 1/4" and square is 2". I know there are more sizes of the round bar up in the machine shop area but I spend all my time on the other end of the shop under a hood so I couldnt tell ya exactly what they have for sizes. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 If they will let you have it at scrap rate, you will have lots of material to make things besides blades with. Where I work I can buy our scrap at the going rate,and sometimes the boss's even cuts me a better rate. I have a batch of stainless,copper,brass,and beryllium at work now that I need to get weighed up and paid for. I have also called dibs on the .375" diameter Titanium bar ends we are currently generating. Lots of inexpensive material to work with. I have one bundle of 440c stainless that I want to try making some small blades with. Get in good with the person making the decisions on the scrap material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 They are good about selling stock at scrap rate to us. They will even sell us material at cost if it is not scrap but can afford to let it go depending on the current need for it. They also let us work on our own things in the shop as long as we are doing it on our time. So aside from a great paying job with great benefits and paid holidays and vacation, I also now have access to just about every metal fabricating machine I could ever need except power hammers <_< . I am gonna piggy-back an order next week to get steel for my shop too. They said I can store it there temporarily and cut it to size there and bring it to my shop as needed.....Now it sounds like I am bragging....Sorry lol -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Sounds like you are working with some good folks. Hope someone doesn't mess up that relationship. Anheuser Busch has a brewery where I grew up, and they used to let the employees use the scrap stainless for personal projects, that is until they caught one of the guys selling it. Now no one gets it, and it gets sent to the scrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Everyone at this place are honest, sober (during the work week at least), hard working folk. I was surprised when I started because every shop I have worked in over the years had so many problems with stealing, drinking, laziness, etc and this place has none of those problems. I'm stoked to be working there because it is an entirely self sufficient shop. We get raw material in the door and send out completed autoclaves. The way things used to be in the states before all the manufacturing jobs got outsourced. I hope nobody is stupid enough to mess up what we have going there. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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