patrick Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Anything and everything. I can cut 1/2 square cold. Much beyond that just takes too much power. H13 can get pretty hard, as I note above up into the lower 50s HRC. The edge geometry is not a flat grind but more of an apple seed/convex grind to add strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blou Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I would like to make square and round punches to make holes in hot metal; i want use h13 stock to do it. Will i have to heat treat them after forging and cooling in ashes for 12-24 hours. Thanks Michel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Why are you trying to anneal them after forging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Thought that H-13 is air hardening and extremely difficult to properly anneal. Doubt that cooling in ash is going to get you anywhere close to annealed, if that is where you are headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Annealing for is something like let it cool no more than 50 degrees an hour. Forge it, and use it, or forge, heat to orange and let it cool, maybe in front of a fan, no?? I tried to link an old thread I found, real quick using the search but it won't let me post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 the air hardening steels usually need a computerized furnace with ramping controls to anneal which is why I was wondering about the ash process. Heat cool in air and temper would be what I would be looking into and as I recall the draw temperature for tempering is quite high indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 22 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: the air hardening steels usually need a computerized furnace with ramping controls to anneal which is why I was wondering about the ash process. Heat cool in air and temper would be what I would be looking into and as I recall the draw temperature for tempering is quite high indeed! Looks like tempering at 1000-1200 degrees f , pretty hot when your used to working simple steels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 As Thomas said, to do h13 to spec will require a heat treating oven / furnace. Some people get results acceptable to them from skipping the anneal and doing the quench and temper by eye. Do also note that high alloy steels like this often have to be significantly above magnetic to harden. h13 is about 1900°F, i.e. several hundred degrees above magnetic. Do not forge below 1650°F. Actually, consider some other steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 34 minutes ago, EricJergensen said: As Thomas said, to do h13 to spec will require a heat treating oven / furnace. Some people get results acceptable to them from skipping the anneal and doing the quench and temper by eye. Do also note that high alloy steels like this often have to be significantly above magnetic to harden. h13 is about 1900°F, i.e. several hundred degrees above magnetic. Do not forge below 1650°F. Actually, consider some other steel. Anneal after forging before heat treating?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Nick you just said "Heat Treating after forging before heat treating?" annealing is a heat treating process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Greetings Blou, If you are going to purchase your metal from a supplier many times H13 can be purchased pre-annealed. If that is the case just bring it up to temperature after forging and let it air cool.. It will work just fine.. Like all punches they will need some touch up grinding after a while. Just this ol boys 2c. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 50 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Nick you just said "Heat Treating after forging before heat treating?" annealing is a heat treating process... Sorry that was poorly phrased. Anneal before hardening, everything I saw on it was normalizing wasn't nessecary so couldn't it just be forged then hardend and tempered with good results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I use all my H13 tools as forged. They hold up just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 2 hours ago, NickOHH said: Anneal after forging before heat treating?? no just Normalizing. annealing is long slow cool allowing grain growth. you have them backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, Steve Sells said: no just Normalizing. annealing is long slow cool allowing grain growth. you have them backwards No, I was just trying to figure out why annealing it was in the question , sounded like it should he wanted to he wanted to normalize not anneal it after forging, and was making sure I wasn't missing a reason to not skip normalizing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 The reason to skip normalizing it is that the ASM Handbook, 8th Edition, vol 2 Heat Treating, Cleaning and Finishing; page 232 says normalizing is not recommended for H13 and in the general write up on hot work tool steels, page 231, it says " Normalizing. Because these steels as a group are either partially or completely air-hardening , normalizing is not recommended except for the high nickel steel 6F7." Handy thing the ASM handbooks... There is a reason to use the specific terms; a lot of folks use "heat treating" to mean hardening when it could refer to making it as soft as possible just as correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 40 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: There is a reason to use the specific terms; a lot of folks use "heat treating" to mean hardening when it could refer to making it as soft as possible just as correctly. Yea I know better , I should have read that one again before I hit submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Besides being cheap, I am a noted elitist and notorious jargonista! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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