17968088069750894341744475 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does anyone know of any websites or books where I can get some schematics for european style swords, swordguards, etc...? I'm in need of guidebooks as well. I can't see my master that often, and I only own one book of basic smithing, so more books and instructions would be appreciated. Anything is useful at this point; I'm getting kind of tired of making small knives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 There used to be a sword in a rock!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno C. Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 BundleRiff, If you are not just a Troll (no offense), your question will breed discontent and laughter from the members of this forum. There is no such thing as a "How to make the ultimate sword for Newbies" book. If you are serious, Read all you can, learn all you can, and practice. No shortcuts exist. This forum is Full of information and insults to get you well on your way. All you need to do is put in the work. Interested in European swords ? Find the literature. Google has an app for that I think. Between historical accuracy and the methods historically accurate and modern, you have your work cut out for you. If all else fails, then simply forge something (try it), and if you survive unscathed, learn from any mistakes you've made. I think that's how they did it thousands of years ago before google. Always trying stuff attempting to make it better. Don't mean to discourage, just felt the need to post the obligatory "Bad Newbie", so the moderators and other talented smiths can spend some more time at the forge. Do what you wish, and I suggest reading as much as you can from wherever you can. Then form your own conclusions. We have all been N00bs at one point. I used to get laughed at for telling my teachers that I want to make a hammer. Why ? Because for them, you can buy a perfectly good hammer at the local market for less than $4. And the cost of making one would be 10 times that. Took a while for me to understand what they meant. You want a sword ? Buy one. Want to make a good sword ? Dedicate a good portion of your life learning about what a sword is, why it is, how it's used, when it's used, and methods of manufacture, etc. I dare say, I can beat any man with an Awesome "Ninja Sword" with a piece of rebar. Why ? cuz my rebar won't break, and if It does, I wouldn't care anyway. Good Luck. -Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Museums with extensive arms and armor exhibits would be a fruitful place to look, bring a sketchbook if they don't allow photos. I have picked up a few 'weapon' encyclopedia type books from the cheap table in front of the book store, lot of photos and some descriptions, but no detailed spec's. Hit up the book reviews section here on IFI, and the knife and sword subforums as well, I'm sure there will be mentions that will help you. I think hirasoulas authored one that was geared towards swordsmithing, but that's just a WAG based on a memory =\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Trolls, what are they? Why do they irritate the experienced? About once every 3-4 days a young person will come on with the aspirations of making a sword. Never mind the fact they may or may not have ever even mastered the simplest forging techniques. If this isn't you, then feel free to ask away. Keep the questions intelligent. Just as iron sharpens iron, well you know the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 "The Wallace Collection" catalog has a couple of hundred with lengths and weights listed. Wagner's "Cut and Thrust Weapons" Has quite useful drawings of guards Now European styled swords does cover over 2000 years; so are you interested in "The Celtic Sword: by Pleiner or Swords of WWI??? "The Sword in Anglo Saxon England" I have a nice book on "the double edged sword of the German Migration period" published in the 1939's in German of course I can dig the cite out for you if you wish. Oh Yes!!!! "Records of the Medieval Sword" (Pretty much anything by Ewart Oakeshott) Not almost NOWHERE will you find everything laid out with dimensions, etc. You will be lucky to have a scale marker, get used to using dividers and a precision scale and a magnifier and basic math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If you are bored with small knives, as you put it, you wont like making swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does anyone know of any websites or books where I can get some schematics for european style swords, swordguards, etc...? I'm in need of guidebooks as well. I can't see my master that often, and I only own one book of basic smithing, so more books and instructions would be appreciated. Anything is useful at this point; I'm getting kind of tired of making small knives. You have unknowingly used the incorrect wording in your post. You did not list your location so we can not direct you to a blacksmith in your area. We cannot suggest other information in your area. It is a small thing (located in your profile) but it has many advantages. You only own one blacksmithing book. What is the title? Did you read and apply the information from the book? Why not seek out additional books for additional information. Many are listed in the book section of IForgeIron. Blacksmithing books that are free to download are listed behind the downloads tab on the forum page. Did you read the knife classes, or the knife section of IForgeIron? Was the information helpful? Did you use google to find what was available to you from the internet? What sites or forums did you visit and were they helpful to you? Why not move from making small knives to making larger knives. What size or style knives have you made. Please attach photos so we can both see your work and make suggestions for improvements. We encourage newbes. They need to show us they are interested and are trying. They need to take the suggestions made out to the forge and use the information. Then show us what you made, ask how to fix the problems you may have encountered, and more information will come your way. Rough starts are sometimes caused by a lack of base knowledge to draw from when asking your question. Just like a car, once you get past the rough start, let it warm up a bit or digest and research the information provided, then move slowly down the road until you feel comfortable. Build up speed and before long you will be teaching others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Come on guys give him some slack. So judgemental this crowd has become lately. I can see where you would assume that there are books of intruction out there on swords since there is a plethora of books on knife making. Apparently there isnt many out there. Thomas named what is out there for swords. Which is basically books of pictures and dimensions. Being skilled making knives, perhaps you can judge and practice how a sword would come out from there. Many people draw one out to scale and use simple geometric patterns to get the proportions right. Good luck, and i hope you stick around with this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Have you had a chance to read this thread? If not it would be good to do so, at least you can see where people are coming from when they respond to you. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Interesting question and I don't know the answer. I'm still busy making various types of knives, working on my first stub tang, practicing forge welding and anything else I can smith that I think will sell. Bottle openers are quite popular. I have made an 11" spear point and found that challenging enough. One thing that keeps me from attempting a sword is after having worked larger knives and the spear, the amount of time and skill it would take and wanting to be compensated for my time and efforts. Then as the above thread clearly states there are safety concerns as well. Good luck and let us know what you find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 DAniel C I believe youi are spot on...And I am guilty of doing just that...Seems I have tried to change a bit lately and as I have read these kinds of things recently i try and give some helpful hints when i know them...and just not respond at other times...My fear is that like in this case, we have someone that does not know how to seek information,,,We can likely and have, helped with that..and it may just be he will not return. A very common problem is when foiks do not list their location..perhaps admin here could make that a suggestion and tell why it would help when they enter the site the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17968088069750894341744475 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 BundleRiff, If you are not just a Troll (no offense), your question will breed discontent and laughter from the members of this forum. There is no such thing as a "How to make the ultimate sword for Newbies" book. If you are serious, Read all you can, learn all you can, and practice. No shortcuts exist. This forum is Full of information and insults to get you well on your way. All you need to do is put in the work. Interested in European swords ? Find the literature. Google has an app for that I think. Between historical accuracy and the methods historically accurate and modern, you have your work cut out for you. If all else fails, then simply forge something (try it), and if you survive unscathed, learn from any mistakes you've made. I think that's how they did it thousands of years ago before google. Always trying stuff attempting to make it better. I didn't mean to write this post as a troll post, I'm just seeking information. If you truely believe that I am trying to XXXX with you guys with this post then you're mistaken. I'm sorry if I didn't make my post clear enough, and as I reread my post it is pretty broad (writing has never been my strong suit). I only requested any names of books, paperback or otherwise, to help me teach myself. If this post is seriously bugging you, then I can scrap it and rewrite it, making it clearer. Thanks for atleast reading my post, -BundleRiff You need to read and follow the ToS before posting again. . http://www.iforgeiron.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules Generally its no fussin, no cussin, and treat people with respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 the answers you seek have been posted above, some here may get a little jaded from the regular posts of a newbie who want to make a sword, most have never worked metal before and are convinced that the secret is as simple as adding a new app to their phone and within an hour of the first time they light a forge they will have the best sword in the world. it happens often here. some try to explain that such skills take time to learn, many years in some cases and often the newbie is convinced that those here just dont want to share the secret and are being mean to them when in fact they are being told the secret and that is it is hard work and practice. you were asked above if you could add your rough location as it would mean people could help you better, it is no good telling you to check out a place in the US if you are in australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Generally you can tell how grumpy I am at posting time by if I start suggesting books that are excessivly expensive, hard to find and in different languages---though I do own most of the works I like to cite. If the person goes to the trouble to dig them out---ILL is your friend if you are in the USA!---and starts asking more informed questions it's a good sign that an interesting conversation can be had with them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17968088069750894341744475 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 You have unknowingly used the incorrect wording in your post. You did not list your location so we can not direct you to a blacksmith in your area. We cannot suggest other information in your area. It is a small thing (located in your profile) but it has many advantages. You only own one blacksmithing book. What is the title? Did you read and apply the information from the book? Why not seek out additional books for additional information. Many are listed in the book section of IForgeIron. Blacksmithing books that are free to download are listed behind the downloads tab on the forum page. Did you read the knife classes, or the knife section of IForgeIron? Was the information helpful? Did you use google to find what was available to you from the internet? What sites or forums did you visit and were they helpful to you? Why not move from making small knives to making larger knives. What size or style knives have you made. Please attach photos so we can both see your work and make suggestions for improvements. We encourage newbes. They need to show us they are interested and are trying. They need to take the suggestions made out to the forge and use the information. Then show us what you made, ask how to fix the problems you may have encountered, and more information will come your way. Rough starts are sometimes caused by a lack of base knowledge to draw from when asking your question. Just like a car, once you get past the rough start, let it warm up a bit or digest and research the information provided, then move slowly down the road until you feel comfortable. Build up speed and before long you will be teaching others. I'm already apprentacing under a master for starters; I've been working with him for eight months or so. His name is Michael Sobrado of Dragonforge Ironworks. Here is his website: http://dragonforgellc.com/ The title of the book I own is called "The Skills of A Blacksmith: Volume 1" by Mark Aspery. The book is about basic blacksmithing and has no schematics I can follow that I haven't done already. I looked around my shop and found the second volume in his series as well, which means I can work on more things over the weekend. I have made multiple hand chisels already and I have heat treated one of them. I haven't been able to find any good online resources, and my time to search is limited because of my highschool. I do have a library nearby, but it is almost useless since they don't carry many books at all. This is the first forum that I found online, and by looking at reply and post counts, it seems I picked a very active and helpful one. The knives I have made are somewhat small and crude. I have steel, but I am still not sure how I want the blades to look or really how to make one. I have attatched pictures of an example of what I have made. Thank you for taking the time to write back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hard to see much detail, From what I can see in the photo, you have a great start at your blades. Rich and I ran an online knife making class a while back, I did cover a little about larger blades in there also. The reposts are in the forum under http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/143-knife-making-classes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Funny I live in rural New Mexico; yet our small local library can get books from over 90 others including several university libraries using ILL---Inter Library Loan. I've been able to find rare expensive books that I've had open booksearches on for over a decade! Does your library really not participate in ILL or did you just not know to ask? And if you find yourself buried under all those great books out there---Blame Benjamin Franklin! (One seriously cool dude! Like Alexander Weygers good at so many different things they had to come up with different catagories to set them in!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 May Maladictions pursue this double post to the uttermost depths of world slime! Who says you can't cuss here? You just need to be inventive! (or plagerize RAH like I did) I said it. People have been baned for cussin. you know that Thomas, therefore be there a pox on thy chicken ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The knife making classes are a fantastic resource, http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/148-knife-making-class-101/ For me I have to go thru them slowly, trying out what's being done for myself before things begin to make sense. All of the knives I've made to this point are full tang knives so yesterday I was reading & rereading the threads on handles until I could start to understand what I'll need to do for a stub tang. Even then I'll likely have questions which no one here is going to mind if at least they can see that I've read what's posted and tried to apply it, and then need help. What type of steel are you using at this point? I copy profiles of knives that I like, including ones that others post here. My first knives were paring knives from my kitchen that I cloned, using old files which can be 1095 steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Knives and Scabbards, Museum of London has over 300 knives from the medieval period found in excavations around London. Not many pictures but every one has a very nicely done archeological drawing TO SCALE. With the aid of a photocopier that can enlarge stuff to set amounts you can blow up a drawing to the exact original size to work from. If you really like it you can glue the pic on thin sheetmetal and cut out a metal version---scratching MOL and the knife number allows you to keep track of the designs... It also has information on, metallurgy, handle materials and construction methods.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno C. Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 BundleRiff, I Did not mean to offend or discourage you. And I encourage you to try all that you wish. Probably too long away from the fire that has me all grumpy. Jim Hrisoula has written 3 very Good books on Knife making (I hear tell of a fourth?). I highly recommend them. There are many other books and even videos available for sale on the internet through Amazon or usaknifemaker and the like. Loads of good information. Learn all you can. And if funding is an issue, you can try your local library. I find that if you look hard enough, then internet will provide more answers than one might care for. On google if you type in "free blacksmithing books" or "Free knifemaking books", you will find plenty of info to keep you busy for a long while. A very good knife can be made with not much more than fire in a hole in the ground, a rock for an anvil and a hammer of some sort. If you want it to look shinier, a file goes a long way. More than one way to skin a cat, but the basics remain the same. Good Luck, and Keep on Forging. -Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Swords definitely profit from tooling up. You can make a great knife using files and abrasive paper. Trying to do a sword that way will make you old before your time! (and your "goes" will be so far apart you will forget a lot of the tricks you learned doing the last one!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17968088069750894341744475 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Knives and Scabbards, Museum of London has over 300 knives from the medieval period found in excavations around London. Not many pictures but every one has a very nicely done archeological drawing TO SCALE. With the aid of a photocopier that can enlarge stuff to set amounts you can blow up a drawing to the exact original size to work from. If you really like it you can glue the pic on thin sheetmetal and cut out a metal version---scratching MOL and the knife number allows you to keep track of the designs... It also has information on, metallurgy, handle materials and construction methods.... The knife making classes are a fantastic resource, http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/148-knife-making-class-101/ For me I have to go thru them slowly, trying out what's being done for myself before things begin to make sense. All of the knives I've made to this point are full tang knives so yesterday I was reading & rereading the threads on handles until I could start to understand what I'll need to do for a stub tang. Even then I'll likely have questions which no one here is going to mind if at least they can see that I've read what's posted and tried to apply it, and then need help. What type of steel are you using at this point? I copy profiles of knives that I like, including ones that others post here. My first knives were paring knives from my kitchen that I cloned, using old files which can be 1095 steel. BundleRiff, I Did not mean to offend or discourage you. And I encourage you to try all that you wish. Probably too long away from the fire that has me all grumpy. Jim Hrisoula has written 3 very Good books on Knife making (I hear tell of a fourth?). I highly recommend them. There are many other books and even videos available for sale on the internet through Amazon or usaknifemaker and the like. Loads of good information. Learn all you can. And if funding is an issue, you can try your local library. I find that if you look hard enough, then internet will provide more answers than one might care for. On google if you type in "free blacksmithing books" or "Free knifemaking books", you will find plenty of info to keep you busy for a long while. A very good knife can be made with not much more than fire in a hole in the ground, a rock for an anvil and a hammer of some sort. If you want it to look shinier, a file goes a long way. More than one way to skin a cat, but the basics remain the same. Good Luck, and Keep on Forging. -Bruno Thank you all very much for the books. I'm sorry if my post wasn't the clearest or the best qualitywise, but nevertheless I am greatful that you took the time to give me more help in my career. If I have any other questions, I'll be sure to come here before I try and search through google. Thanks and have a nice weekend, BundleRiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Das Zweischneidige Schwert Der Germanischen Vo:lkerwanderungszeit von Elis Behmer 1939 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 danke Herr Powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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