Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hey guys. I've recently decided to forge some swords and I'm just wondering, when ordering lengths of flat bar, which dimensions are ideal for sword smithing? Do different steel suppliers have different standard lengths/widths that they sell or are they generally the same from distributor to distributor. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 if you are ordering mild steel then here in england it comes in 20 foot lengths, what lengths you need may determin where you have it cut to get it home also how long a piece can you carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It you are really forging a sword it shouldn't matter if the steel came in a cube shape should it? If you want to do a more realistic stock removal first sword then buy a peice of your chosen tool steel as close in size as possible to the size of the blade you want to create, so as to waste as little metal as possible. Tool steel is available in a vast variety of thickness, width and length. Some suppliers will provide material in the exact dimension you request, but you will pay for the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 what type of sword, there are thousands of types from history all over the world? for use? for show? EN42 or 45 spring steel is often used by people I deal with who use them to fight with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well since you want to forge a sword; I assume you have forged your weight in knives and are skilled with hammer and heat treat and this is a trick question the answer to which is: Enough steel to forge the size and type of blade you want to! Very different forging a late renaissance rapier vs a zweihander vs an 1860's cavalry sabre vs a cinqueda, vs ... Did any of Hrisoulas' books help you out on this as they are one of the few on bladesmithing that cover swordmaking? Hopefully you are not assuming a couple of pages of web based content written by ??? can stand in for *hundreds* of pages of content written by a master in the craft. The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith, the Pattern Welded Blade If you are in the USA you should be able to ILL them at your local public library; but you will want to own them if you are going into this craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I do own a copy of "The Complete Bladesmith" but like all books it lacks certain specifics I thought perhaps I would get advice on this particular matter from people who know what they are talking about (not saying Mr. Hrisoulas lacks any understandings). I'm young and like most young men interested in making swords, I want to make a rather large one (eventually) such as a claymore approximately 62" from tip to hilt and perhaps 14th century-ish longswords about 36". I'm asking what dimensions I should order since I am limited as to what I can request the lengths and widths in. I would practice on mild steel before I moved on to something more expensive such as 5160 spring steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 So you suggest getting a go-cart to learn to drive before getting a car? Mild steel is not practice for blades, only practice for hammer control, but you should know that from reading the knife classes. I also suggest you add a location so we can give you local resources. The world is a big place, and import duty's and shipping costs can kill a deal on pricing fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 5160 is so cheap you would do yourself a disservice to work on mild and get the habbits of working mild set in stone and then try to switch to higher carbon. As for size well choose the design you are going to make, you want something a bit thicker, wider and longer than the blade dimensions you want to make---the better you get the less "overage" you'll need. Expect there to be around 50% wastage and you want to end up with a sword weighing around 2.5 lbs. Or a bit over 1 kg. That's *finished weight* with grip, guard and pommel included! Remember if you have not worked out forging and heat treating of blade grade steels doing knives expect to trash your first half dozen swords learing these base skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thank you Thomas Powers for not totally discouraging me with your response (if only the same could be said about Mr. Sells'). Fortunately, I plan to start with much smaller products such as knives to learn the basics, since that seems to be among the most common recommendations for beginner bladesmiths. Unfortunately, I live in an area with no available bladesmiths and between work and school (online college courses), my only option is to self teach, with as much research and advice from experienced craftsmen/artists such as yourselves, as I can get. So, you would advise me to get my hands on some 5160 spring steel? "The Complete Bladesmith" says it's well suited for swords, axes, really large bowies and other blades where a larger flexible blade is desired. It sounds ideal for me since, once I learn the basics and get some experience, I plan to exclusively forge swords. Lastly, I am a beginner and am still learning so try not to look down on me too much folks, especially if the answer to my questions should seem obvious; I'm simply trying to get acquire as much information as I can before I begin forging and I DO appreciate helpful responses. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 we try to help people out ( as soon as we find out how they got in ;) ) im just a beginner at forgework, not done any blades but I think start small and work up. I meet lots of people who think getting a forge means they will be making fantastic swords in 2 days and it is often difficult to get them to slow down a bit and think and then find out what skills they need to learn. I cant help much but some who may seem to be discouraging are really trying to help. you can get spring steel in many forms to practice on, if you know people who fix cars get a broken or unwanted coil spring and heat it till you can straighten a section then make a knife from it, anti roll bars, coil or leaf springs all can be reused and made into useful items. you can learn not only how to shape them but also about heat treating them and failures dont cost much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Try this: Get as suggested above a bunch of 5160. Quarter thick by one inch or so will work fine...cut it into specific lengths for knife blanks.for at least 50 of them and develop muscle memory and basic forging skills along with fire control and general shop work. Sounds like too much I bet?...Sords are so much more to consider and develop than knives it will give you a ground floor approach at the very least. Then sort out all you have forge and pick at least half of them to finish to completion....With aq,,,say 6" knife blank,,if you over heat the tip and ruin that part you can shorten to good steel.....there are ways to tell that point in the heat treat stickies on here and in the knife making lessons. Fit those knives with handles and guards and finish them as well as your skills allow you to...keep toiling away until you can do a blade start to finish including heat treat in a day,,then two a day..completed knife at first one a week...Then two a week,,and so on. If a knife does not look well done at any point,,toss it and move on. And back to your original question...how much steel to order...when you do as I suggest and keep track of start to finish size changes you will answer it yourself. Keep a log of size to start and size when done..even tracings in the log of finished will help. From experience I will tell you now that when you start on first blade, it will not change size the same as when you do the fiftieth or one hundredth one..you will,,we hope,, gain skills and hot metal management to get more for each black with less waste. If this offends you it is not meant to..If you need more help down the road as you spend shop time Post pics and ask in here.I for one will offer all I can. If you post soon with out showing me some efforts. I will not likely offer other progressive thoughts. Many wanna be sord makers ask almost identical questions...So try and see why we are somewhat on the edge here....And if you would like a time frame thought. I have made knives for a long time..forged and stock removal..I have a fully equipped shop and my knives sell well. You can google my name and see my web site. I am not anywhere near ready to start a first sord. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Oops the width should be slightly less than the intended blade as it will widen some with forging---and don't forget the distal taper in a sword!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Who is discouraging anyone? I spent countless hours trying to help people learn by making the knife classes and other posts to help. If you can not be bothered to read, then I will move along. Have fun and good luck. If you really want to learn something about making swords, and the reaction to your post here, read this '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 So you think being told the straight story is to discourage you? Yeah you're young, it's obvious reading your posts. Like so many folk getting into a craft they're hoping someone will tell them the "secret" so they can skip all the dreary learning part. So, as not to be discouraging I'll tell you THE secret. There's only one and here it is. Knowledge and practice. A little knowledge takes a LOT of practice to make useful. That's it, the whole story. The bladesmithing section of IFI has more knowledge than most mortals can use in a lifetime, all you need do is read it. Putting it in action is up to YOU. If you don't DO it it's just stuff in your head and will never come to be. I sure hope none of that is discouraging, it's just ow IT IS. Steel doesn't care, it's just highly refined dirt and was just as happy as ore or Edsel fenders, or whatever as it is being new high carbon bar stock, OR a hand made blade. It's just dirt, has zero emotions, desire, wants needs or such. All that is in OUR heads, only clever monkeys with thumbs feel a need to make dirt into shiny sharp or sky scraping . . . things. To make a blade, what you think or want is secondary to what you can do. To bend steel to your will you have to learn the steel, not the other way around. You MUST learn steel and there are a LOT of different steels and each speaks it's own dialect YOU have to learn. All that is to say delicate feelings have no place working steel, ZERO. Steel doesn't care, you can destroy it but you can't hurt it. If you can't hear the straight poop without being discouraged, forging blades is probably not for you. If on the other hand you get your back up when something doesn't work and you feel driven to find out what went wrong, make it right and try again. The fire and anvil might be your playground. I hope you stick around. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenaghan Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 HI, I'm gonna PM you... as I'm only 2 hours from kenora! good thing you updated you location hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Lenaghans offer is tops..For a new sord maker that is an ultimate experience..I can only wonder if Man on fire took him up on it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Check out the Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.