Keganthewhale Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So I found a place to get some really nice tool steel and lots of it for free, and although it would be years before I would be in a place to cast my own anvil I had some questions that I'm hoping all you kind folks could help me with. I've casted bronze in the past using the lost wax method but was curious about other methods. Can you cast into plain pottery clay and it not be dangerous? If so would it cause the product to come out looking horrendous? Could you cast it in multiple steps, ex: horn and face in one pour, body in another or several other pours? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated! And remember it's more of a mad mans curiosity than a plan (at this point anyway!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If you were to try to cast an anvil you would be foolish. If you have what seems to be a large supply of tool steel you'd be much better off fabricating your anvil by welding. Not having a welder or the skills to do it is not an excuse. Your questions about foundry work say you don't have those skills either. It would be much easier and cost effective from any stand point to fabricate your anvil and if you have to learn those skills and purchase the equipment to do it, they are skills and tools that much more match the needs of blacksmithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 An excellent idea; of course just the PPE needed will cost over what you can buy a brand new anvil and the costs of a tool steel foundry and the classes needed to profit from it will probably run you more than the cost of a brand new pretty nice car. A member of these forums had some anvils cast by a foundry in high alloy steel and he was selling them for $13 a pound IIRC; Jymm? Don't forget that what you melt may not be what you pour; lots of issues with atmosphere/flux. And no pottery clay will not work and may end up in the death of you or one of your helpers. Doing it piecemeal: were you thinking of casting the next piece onto the the previous ones or casting them and then welding them up? Casing a piece onto the next can be done. I expect it will take you over 100,000 $US to get good at it and several years of experimentation---you will need to heat the previous up to around forge welding temps I would expect and pour through a flux layer or do it in a vacuum. Casting and welding up pieces would be much easier though the welding costs will be quite high---much higher than buying a new anvil would be. I'd look into having the expensive tricky and DANGEROUS melting and pouring done by professionals and concentrate on design and pattern making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Well, first of all, you wouldn't want to cast something that large using a different technique without someone very very experienced in it. You'd probably want to make it on it's side, using the green sand, I think. A lot more dangerous than forging. (IMHO) Second, casting steel is very different than bronze, especially in such large quantities. You'd want a monster crucible, and you'd have to have refractory rated to a much higher temperature or you'd slag it out. I would think that casting it in stages wouldn't end well for you. You'd be less likely to end up with casting voids, (bubbles), but at best, if it did join well, I would think it would tend to come apart of the seams. All that and safety issues aside, you're facing loss of trace elements, burning out some of the carbon, and I'm sure, crazy issues with control of grain formation and conducting heat treatment after. Of course, much of this is surmised. I'm a brass, bronze, aluminum type, and the biggest thing I cast generally ain't that big. I've been casting for years and wouldn't dream of trying this. I'm sure a good foundry worker with years of experience could build the necessary equipment and do this at home, but for me, it would be like grabbing rebar and trying to beat out a sword. If you've got good tool steel, why not work with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Down South our friend Gene Mulloy used to cast anvils at his place in Laurel Machine and Foundry. He has the equipment but no longer make them, stating that you must be really close to some good resources to make it economical. Also stated that it would cost him way over $7 / pound (a few years ago). It the cost are that high for a commercial furnace then an amateur should re-evaluate his economics...provided he has the technological and resources requirements. It is a very dangerous endeavor. BUT if you should desire to do this please advise us so that we can video the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Fisher anvils were made by pouring iron onto special tool steel faces, causing a weld. They did this for over 125 years. When they were forced to stop in 1979 by EPA regulations, they tried to find a foundry that could use their process and make them. No one could duplicate what they did. Foundry skills are very metal specific and hot metal out of control is deadly. Read up on casting, and fabrication techniques to understand more of what is involved. Also, it is very difficult to successfully weld castings together, and have them stay together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 HOWEVER: if you do have access to a lot of tool steels at very good prices, there is an active market re-selling to blacksmiths either on-line or at conferences! I generally buy knife, (1095, O-1) or tooling (H13, S7) grade steel every time I get to a conference. I once advised a fellow who had access to S-1, (broken pharmaceutical punches). To take a 5 gallon bucket or two to a conference and sell them for WAY MORE THAN SCRAP! He did very well as they were a good alloy in a very easily worked size and shape---I've used several to make tools from myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keganthewhale Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 The steel I have access to is not the most workable shape, but could readily used for hammer heads or mini anvils, or a swage or hardie. Thankyou everyone for your input, I do appreciate it! I'd like to remind everyone that I did say, "And remember it's more of a mad mans curiosity than a plan..." I definitely don't have the means or experience or a plan to do any of it, but I appreciate everyone entertaining my dumb questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 We were just worried about the mad man part---most of us work with steel from 1500 degF to 2300 degF on a regular basis---but molten steel scares us! You drop a yellow hot piece of steel and it politely heads toward the ground allowing you to get out of the way. Molten steel can not only splash but *ANY* water around can cause it to chase you down the hall! Hyperbole I know but I do know of people who spent months in the hospital after a single drop of sweat fell into a mold they were getting ready to pour. (and steel is on the upper end of HOT for hobby melting) Market for Large chunks of tool steel is there too, just not as big, though hammer head stock of known alloy will find buyers! (Harder to ship too so delivery/sales at a conference is a help) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I do plan to cast anvils and have for some time. I have invested in two 3,oooHZ 50 KW induction unit, 100kw generator and a large amount of supplementary kit to do the rest. Only took six years and more $ than I'll admit to anyone but my accountant. Fools errand for sure and I, gentleman, am that fool. Kegan I say go for it if you feel you need to, but if you have lucid moments then do other work, get paid and buy an anvil. Ric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keganthewhale Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 i already have a 150# fisher, that i love dearly! however! i was merely curious if it were possible to make your own anvil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Theoretically possible - yes, practical - not even remotely. Safety issues that would make EOD look inviting - gobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Greetings Kegan, In the words of Rick and many other professional smiths. BUY AND ANVIL .. And go back to work.. You will waste a lot of time and money.. Just some advice from an old guy.. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 CNC is another option. There would be setup cost of course, but still more economical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Ernie Leimkuhler has a nice article on making an anvil from solid stock. http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/anvil1/anvil2.html http://www.stagesmith.com/gallery/shop_projects/anvils/anvil_3/ http://www.stagesmith.com/gallery/shop_projects/anvils/anvil_4/index.html Much safer than trying to deal with molten steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Torin, that first link was the inspiration for me to cut my anvil ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now