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heloo people, i am not a real black smith or anything but i am an enthusiastic new metal worker and i make improvised swords and stuff

i live in quite an urbanised area but there arent really any advanced hardware stores around, so i usually have to make a barbecue fire or use the kitchen stove and collect junk   :D and i dont have access to proper steels. recently i started work on a knife, it normal iron,the type used by welders for making gates and ladders ( its not steel as far as i know) , and i need to harden it as much as i can because right now its not much use as the edge isnt durable, what exactly should i do? i have no access to torches or a forge or power tools, basically im in the medieval times :D what should i use to quench this knife? used motor oil or water ? pleeease help me out i really need help

 

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We  told you in the chat room where the information is, building a forge, where to learn about blades, and HT. We also explained its not a one line answer to your question.   Your responce in the chat room of you "dont have time to read the forums" is an insult,  and fairly makes me wonder why you asked if you cant be "bothered" to read the answers, you gotta try to get anyware.
 
If your time to too valuable to bother reading the answers, how do you expect to learn? why should any of us waste ours?

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In medieval times a forge would be available.   A blow drier, hole in the ground and charcoal is a forge.

 

Where do you live that there are NO automobiles---but there are computers?  Leaf springs are generally a decent alloy for swords and knives; but you do need to use heat to straighten!

 

Now repeat after me:

YOU CAN'T PROPERLY HARDEN MILD STEEL FOR A BLADE NO MATTER WHAT YOU QUENCH IT IN!

YOU CAN'T PROPERLY HARDEN MILD STEEL FOR A BLADE NO MATTER WHAT YOU QUENCH IT IN!

YOU CAN'T PROPERLY HARDEN MILD STEEL FOR A BLADE NO MATTER WHAT YOU QUENCH IT IN!

YOU CAN'T PROPERLY HARDEN MILD STEEL FOR A BLADE NO MATTER WHAT YOU QUENCH IT IN!

 

Iron refering to real wrought iron was displaced by mild steel starting in the 1850's (Bessemer/Kelly process).  I strongly doubt you are using it.

 

If you are in the USA; go to the local public library and ILL "The Complete Bladesmith" by Hrisoulas, also "the $50 Knife Shop" by Wayne Goddard

 
I spent 15 years forging in the inner city of Columbus OH, one of my students smithed while living in a dorm room.  Stop making excuses and start moving forward!

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I have no idea what I was looking for when I found this thread, but it is well worth the investment in your time to read through it.  he also addresses the use of the ubiquitous 'weld steel' that I believe you are referring to.

'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

 

 

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

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Geez, guys! How 'bout we all go jump on the newbie? No wonder this site has such a bad rep.

 

Abyss, welcome to the IFI site! Current example aside, you can usually find good advice and friendly help here. Usually.

 

For your current blade, try iced brine. Or you could look up "Rob Gunter's Super Quench" online. You'll probably have to substitute some of the soaps, which may not be available in your area. Another option would be to use some type of case-hardening compound, but you would need to sharpen it "Indian style" thereafter.

 

For your next knife, do try to scrounge some automotive spring or other good source of high-carbon steel. Keep working at it, and don't let any burned out old crumudgeons discourage you from working toward success!

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This question was also covered in the chat room prior to posting here.

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Perhaps it's a different way of looking at something.  I want the newbies to succeed and not to be throwing away their time, money and efforts on things that won't and can't work.

 

I also expect them to have done their basic research *beforehand*!  Just like I would expect someone setting out to go to a new place to know *where* that place is so they at least know what direction to travel!

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Why not try making tools instead?  Tongs don't need to be a special steel to work, and building them improves your hammer technique, and gives you a better understanding for how metal responds to the hammer.  Chisels and punches can easily be made from a length of coil spring, and they really help with developing tapers as well as hardening and tempering processes.

 

Plus, when you want to make knives, you already have the right tools for the job!  No need to scrounge for pliers or channellocks, which don't hold material securely.

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Burned out?  oh well.  This guy posts some photos of completed and assembled sword like objects, with handles and then wants them to magically harden afterward.  Also said he doesnt have any forge.  We talked to him for about a half hour, but he said he doesnt have time with his busy life to read anything on the knife making series or heat treat for himself, would rather us just tell him if using oil will make it hard, after we already explained to him how to do this, including peening the edge as with a sythe! It is also strange that after him being a member for over 2 years he never read anything.

 

Maybe you have methods to harden mild steel with out heat, and with out taking a blade apart... If so then you forgot to tell him, and all of us.

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hmmm I wonder if there is any correlation between post count and curmudgeonness?  Seems like some of us are too stubborn to just give up and go away.  I blame it on subtle side effects of long term exposure to the radiation given off by hot steel---wish I had an appropriate place to send a thank you card.

 

(Remember W.C.Fields' line "It was a woman that drove me to drink and I never thought to write and thank her!")

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as I read at another site, Some people just think more highly of themselves than they should.

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Some of us do indeed thingk quite highly of ourselves. Survey of folk in my day job shows 50% of us think we're in the top 10% of our trade. :D  (I have the same day job as Steve.)

 

I was advised via PM re what happened in chat. (Otherwise I'd wonder what the heck Steve was rambing on about.) I still think it is a bad idea in general to jump on newbies as I have so often seen done here. In this specific instance the exhibited behavior seems to be in-line after all.

 

Sorry about anybody's toes.

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Perhaps it was missed in his starting post of "no way to heat the blade"  but he thinks the placing it in oil/water will harden it by itself,  you suggested he try brine,  how will that harden anything if it does not get heated above AC3  first?    We did try to explain, and I did explaine peining due to his lack off heat, and already assembled and painted blade,  and he refuesed to read what we posted.  Seems he only wanted a fast answer to confirm what he decided was true, refusing to accept he could be wrong in what he thought he heard before.

 

We were not just assuming anything, we had already talked.    But assumptions had been made, perhaps from listening to mis information and rumors elsewhere rather than attempting to find facts first.   Rumors never help anyone. When people really wanted to know about something they find a real source and ask, then listen to the answer.   Others just stir the pot. Time will tell which this one is.

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"The Cementation of Iron and Steel" would be a good read for him then on how carbon migration works...

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Sword shaped objects (SSOs) can be made from pretty much anything, including wood. The only concern that I see the IFI members presenting is safety. If for some reason your intention is to actually utilize the blade and not have it for a decorative wall hanger, then most people would be very keen to know what type of steel was used and how it was properly hardened to maintain the edge and overall integrity of piece. The finished molecular structure of the steel/iron is of vital importance (basic chemistry).

 

There would be nothing worse than to swing an untreated sword against an object and have it bend, break or shatter in your face or someone else's. All metal is what it is. However, when it becomes damaged...you will be provided with shrapnel as an end result.

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hmmm actually since he has no heat, wont do homework,was told it can't be hardened,perhaps the proper answer to his question is " you can stick it in oil,brine, or anything you want, including a turkey, and all will do an equally good job". figured the last since we are just past Thanksgiving.

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Wait, stormtroopers wouldn't be able to actually hit the horse, so does that still work? :)

 

They don't have blasters so they should be fine.

 

Mark

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Why did nobody suggest the Nigerian Hardening Powder?  If everyone has run out... I might be able to sell him some.
Can someone please market the hardening oil while you are at it... I know one of you is hoarding it all up.

 

And speaking of.... spring steel.   I am trying to make stuff now... but can't wait that long... where do I get winter steel?

Thanks...

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I believe the metaphor is beating a dead horse with a stick. But if he Really wants to know the real answer he can find it here on this site. I just pray who ever buys his pointed objects doesn't abuse them to the point they shatter and sue the pants off of the creator.

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Since the beginning poster has not connected to this site under THAT log-in since 13 minutes after making his post,  our assumptions this was only posted as bait seems to pan out. Cute graphics tho.

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