New ASO

[nogrodoth]

      So I just recently was given a railroad track anvil, shaped quite nicely and i believe a serious upgrade from my 30# cylindrical lump of mild steel i had previously been using, mostly just because someone somehow cut a beautifully straight hardie hole in it, as well as the fact that it has a horn. The only problem is, its only 10 pounds. The first problem I see is someone mentioned a "1/20 hammer to anvil ratio", which would imply I should use an 8oz hammer.. Is there any way to get around that? Set the anvil down in a wood stump to take stress off the center post/beam/thing?

 

      But aside from that, I've read the stuff on here about bolting it down to something big and using silicone/chains/magnets to quiet the shrill ring, but Im just wondering.. Im hoping to learn the basics of welding in the next few months, so when I do.. would welding the railroad track to the iron lump be something to consider? Or could it help to simply bolt the lump to the same stump the RR track anvil is bolted to?

      I'm considering continuing to use my 30# lump and use the RR track one just for its hardie hole and horn, but the face of the 30# lump is deeply pitted all over, and half of one face is angled down 20 degrees or so, as if it was dropped from ten feet up..

I know I wont need a nicer anvil for many months, I'm sure, but it'd be nice to be able to use the RR track one, so long as I wouldn't permanently hurt it by doing so.

 

Soo I guess I didn't say all that the best, but essentially:

 

 

how likely would I be to hurt the 10#er while working 1" thick round stock (much of the scrap ive found is about that size) or RR spikes, and would there be a way to prevent that?

 

Will using a hammer thats more than half a pound hurt it?

 

And how viable would welding/bolting the cylindrical iron lump to the RR track be?

 

Oh and might anyone have ideas on bolting down the cylinder, were I to continue using it as an anvil? Without welding feet on it that is, though I'll probably do that when i have the skills/tools.

 

Heres the lump:

 

I'll upload a pic of the RR track anvil when i can

 

 

Thank you:)

 

[ThomasPowers]

Turn the lump over.

[Charles R. Stevens]

What dose the other end of the lump look like? Can you flip it over? A nice stump would get you up to a good working hight.
The rail anvil could serve you as a bick and tool holder, again find a stump to bring it to hight.
10/1 oat going to hurt the rail, it just isn't an efficient peice of steel for heavy forging. The combo of the lump and the rail will work pretty well. 10/1 on the lump will work just fine.
As to mounting. Fabricate a stand that will bring you to say, rist high on the rail. It's to light for real bashing, but it will be easer on your back to work with.
Mount the lump about fist high.
I assume welding is not an option as you would have grount the working face down. Build a standout if wood ( a pipe that it would slip in would be nice, sink it in the ground like a fence post, fill to the apropriatly level wit sand, ad oil and drop in the slug) I bet the lip is about 3 1/2" across? Of you start with a 4x4 it will stand on just shy of hight, then ad 2, 2x4 tall enough to hold it (say 1/3 up the side) and about an inch longer than the ground. Each side then will be a 2x8. Of set the 2x8 and ad a piece of strap for a tool rack. Walla. Now , if you take the end that is buffers up and clean it up, even slope the other side so you have a big fuller, you can flip it end for end and have 2 working serfaces. Make the 2x4 taller than the 2x8 and you can have 3 (lay it on its side). As fr the rail do something similar but clamp it or bolt it down. If you think you want more mass in the stump use PT and bary it to hight, or if it needs to be portable, knock the botom about of a bucket and use it as a concrete form. You may want to ad 3 short feet do it will set stable on uneven ground.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Tommas you beat my to it! I came down with "Frosty-itis"

[nogrodoth]

Ok. Though turning it over was a problem just because it would wobble all over the place, and would push out any wedges or things i put under it to keep it level. But if securing it like that would work then i should be able to flip it over. Thanks:)

[Charles R. Stevens]

Dropping it in a hole should work fine, even a big stup with 3 large spikes driven in it would hold it.
Of corse a couple hours with a file world work, or if your feeling frogy heat it up and forg it flat.
Blacksmith 102, "there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Chinobi]

if you inset the cylinder into a log or post or whatever and either bevel the bottom to match the deformation or put a thin layer of sand or clay beneath it that should fix any instability from the one side being beaten in like that.

 

were I using that cylinder I would make a base that had a round hole and a half round (cylinder on its side) hole so you can use it in both positions, and then fab some kind of tripod base for that, if you weld feet directly to the cylinder you lose out on taking advantage of that curved side as a faux horn.

 

if you look through the knife chat series in the knife making forum you can see how rich hale uses a very similar object as an anvil, and has the option to lay it on its side to act as a built in fuller/horn for drawing out.  at least I think that was rich, and in the knife section :)  and at some point there was a thread about other peoples anvils of similar shape and how they were mounted, been a while though...

 

im also very curious about this 10 pound micro-rail anvil, is it made out of mine cart rail? a standard rail size cut to 10 pounds would probably be about 4-6" long, depending on the severity of the stock removal.  which puts it in the realm of a jewelers or bench anvil (in my mind at any rate) I certainly wouldn't try to beat 1" stock into submission on such a tiny thing!  can you give us a pic of the rail?

[nogrodoth]

K I couldnt find a ruler so i just used a sheet of 8 1/2 by 11 paper for scale

 

     And i just looked and i think i found that anvil/steel lump.. hmm. Mine was hard to use on its side since its completely round but I guess I just wasn't thinking very well about how to keep it from bouncing or rolling.

 

     And ok. Forging  a couple more spikes spikes shouldn't be too hard:P So I'll do that and unless theres a way to strengthen the small one ill only use it for tiny work. 

I do wonder why someone took the time to cut away all that steel on the base just to make leg-looking things though.

     And I dont know about mine-cart rail, it doesn't seem that small, more like someone just somehow cut long straight lines off each side of the rail.

     Also, I dont know it its important but everything but the anvil face is painted black. Maybe it was used as some sort of decorationish thing? 

Oh and I didnt get a picture of this, but the center beam part is a little over 1/2" thick.

Is it safe to assume this is mild steel?

     And I have considered dropping the stumpy anvil in a beveled hole, but i'm fairly sure its currently out of my range of woodworking skills, unless theres a not too hard way to do it that isn't just drilling a billion holes in the wood stump until i had a 4" deep 6" diameter hole in it, beveled to just the right angle on one side.. though adding sand could help with that.

Anyway, it seems making a frame out of 4x4s and 2x4s would be the best option.

 

Thank you all:)
 

[Chinobi]

It's cute :) 1" round would probably be the end of it though =

I would not assume that it's mild though, search the site for railroad track or rail, I know the metallurgy of rails has been discussed before somewhere...

I'll let the carpenters opine on the best ways to do the woodworking :)

[Charles R. Stevens]

Build up around it, laminating 2x lumber. A square hole will work just fine, no real need to bevel the bottom if the sides are faily tight (slip fit)
Like I said, if you build the box right, you can pull it out, and flip it over. Or lay it on its side, think of a wooden "V"
As for he rail, normaly I'd say to mount it long down in a stump, but it has a bick and a hardy hole, so mount it solid and use it as such, were the foot is cut out you can extend your 2x laminations and clamp the web, that will help sticking it a bit.
So to re cap, think about laminating 2x lumber to gether to make a box, build a solid plug about of 2x to stop the steel slug from falling in. If you cut "v" shaped notches in two (or all fore) sides of the box the slug can be rested on the "V" blocks on its side.
I wish I could sketch out what's in my head.

[Geoff Keyes]

As for the bottom support, lay the beast on it's square end and lay a 2x across the flat, overhanging the sloped bit.  Now you can cut cardboard to fit the slope, using the 90 degree edge of the 2x as a sight line.  Once you know what the slope is, you can cut 2x's to fit the slope and build the rest of the box around the sloped plug you just built.  If you're not going to use the big chunk on it side, silicone or construction glue will hold it in the box you've built.

 

OK, that is a terrible explanation, I'll try again if you can't make head nor tail of it.

 

Geoff

[Charles R. Stevens]

Geoff, can't be any less clear than mine.
But it looks like the slug is flat for about 1/2 the serface, I don't think a wedge would be needed if he gets the box to an 1/8"
If you have acces to a table saw then ripping 45 degre peices for the box corners would help, but not strictly nessisary.

[nogrodoth]

Actually I think both make sense, thank you:)

And I think I agree, the should work fine without a wedge if I built the box right

ill try to draw a design of what I think you mean

[Charles R. Stevens]

That will work. I think you'll enjoy the versitility of using it in 3 positions.
Then use the small rail anvil as a bick and tool holder. You'll be very "traditional".
As your skills and tooling improve, the "lump" can be forged to cool Iron Age demo anvil (Tommas would be so proud ;-). That is if you can black mail some strikers. So keep her around you'll have fond memories of what you did on that old "lump" as well as "upcycling" like a "real" smith of old ;-)

[ThomasPowers]

Weld a wedge onto the beveled side. 

 

Honest Bob demo's with a chunk of shafting as his anvil.  His stump is carved to hold it either on the flat or on the side to allow both to be used.  Of course he's been known to demo with a belt holding ammo in back and back up close to the forge fire too...

[Charles R. Stevens]

Lol, your ears must have been burning, Thommas.
If you haven't figured it out by now, despite the gruff manner in wit h he posts he's good Peaple. Always a place at my table.

[easilyconfused]

Would a slip fit box with some sand in the bottom pack in nicely to support the anvil? 

[nogrodoth]

So I've been thinking more and trying to accumulate materials, and I just wanted to make sure.. will resting the anvil in a v in the sides of the box be strong enough to take the force of hammering? Or would it have to be supported somehow?

thank you all

[Charles R. Stevens]

It's always hard to get an idea from ones mind, out ones mouth (or keyboard) in some one else's ears (or eyes) and in to their brain. With our entropy mutating the original idea, it can get worse as the idea is bandied bac and forth, or better.
If you are taking about laying the lump on its side. Then cutting notches in the top of two sides of the box should be stable.
If you are talking about setting the lump upright in the box, it would be best to crenelate the top of the box so that each side pokes like a fence picket. You can still lay the round on its side diagonally. This also moves the support for the lump farther from the center when on its side. It also maintains more contact between the sides of the box and the lump when it's set upright in the box. With limited wood working skills, I think making a stump by laminating (gluing and nailing or screwing) 2x stock to gether will be easier.
To recap, you need a solid core that the lump sets on, that goes from the ground (or below) then another layer wrapped around the core that extends up 1/3 to 2/3 the sides of your lump. You want the end grain up.
Now if you cut the peices that wrap around the core, and form the sides of the box so they look like fence pickets. You should have a secure holder for your lump in 3 positions. ( or more if you carve shapes in the sides later on) scrap wood sliced at a 45 Insurted in the inside corners will be a bit more secure and give you a place for wedges if the fit is to loos.
Lastly, if you have three feet on the bottom of the stump it will set more stable than one big foot or 4.

[Geoff Keyes]

One of the first things to forge up might be some steel straps, to wrap around the outside of the box.  You may not need it, but it will look cool and it's a belt and suspenders approach.

 

Geoff

[nogrodoth]

Ok. Yes I did men laying it on its side:p  sorry
so thank you all:)
hopefully ill get to start building this weekend:)

[LastRonin]

Good luck, and please post pictures.

 

Lots of pictures.