joshua.M Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 My grandfather gave me a bunch of 18" long sections of 1 1/4" crane cable to use in making cable damascus, They were a christmas gift last year that have sat in the corner of my shop because I was having a hard time welding them (whole outside welded together, but core strand wouldn't). I use the following steps: - Soak in vinegar for 2 days to strip as much gunk off as possible - Spray with brake cleaner and wipe down (box fan blowing away any fumes, and my shop is very open) - Let dry for one day (in sun) - Heat to orange in gas forge to burn off anything else (while I prep coal forge to weld) - Flux on "end grain" of cable so flux flows in - Transfer to coal forge and heat first 2" to welding slowly to ensure even heat - Weld end together - Repeat process for other side - Heat un welded center to orange, twist open (locked in vise) wire brush and flux, close tight - Heat center evenly to welding heat, twist tighter in vise to weld, then 2 more welding passes on anvil Here is the problem. Center would not weld, so I went through the cleaning process and took a piece of the cable apart. The center seems to be galvanized! I didn't even think to check first... stupid me. So here is the question, because it is a gift I don't' want to trash it, but I know the galvy is bad, so does anyone have an idea of how I can take out the center core without the other wires collapsing (thats what happened when I drove it out) I could disassemble the cable and weld each rope separately and then weld all those together, but that is less than time and cost efficient. Thanks for any answers If you need more detail please ask Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I think you should try using more flux. Try fluxing from the end and around the perimeter and use a lot of it. Cable is going to have a lot of surface area compared to bars and it is more than likely going to be dirty no matter how well you cleaned it. As far a the center section try to slowly heat up the cable to let the center get up to forging welding temp. Heat it for a bit and then turn off the fan and let the heat move into the center section then repeat as many times as necessary to get an even welding heat. The cable around the outside will probably have to be welded together before the hammer blows will penetrate to the center section. It may take several welding heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Kubiack, Thanks for your suggestion, I am using as much flux as will melt on it from bright orange heat, when i said that heat it slowly, i meant the heat, pause, heat pause heat method. I take 2 welding passes after twisting it tighter at a welding heat, more if needed. I think it has more to do with the center material, it is very shiny and springy, if bent cold it snaps back to shape, if the outer layers are bent cold, they spring back but stay slightly bent. My best guesses are: galvanized, stainless steel or a strange alloy. Anyone know of some tests I can do to narrow the options of what it could be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robakyo Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Soaking a galvanized steel for 2 days should have removed the zinc coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Take the center out and use the outside strands, Or make a bundle of the outside strands of cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmHorus Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Chuckles...is all I am sayin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Galvanized? I'd be considering not using it even if it was a gift, and had some sentimental value. And, it most likely won't weld. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 I am starting to think it is stainless, brushed it up on the wire wheel, ground on it and tried heating it by itself, fo strange flames, flaking galvy and sparking like stainless (long white sparks, with little bursts on end of sparks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Flux that bad boy at least three times before you try to hamer it. Have that borax dripping off. It acts as a heat sink, most of the time the reason cable doesn't weld in the center is it's not hot enough. The large cable makes getting the heat even difficult. On the third or fourth heat put it in a vice and twist. You'll do this several times. Follow up with a 2lb hammer. My cable is laying in the yard, half buried and I don't bother taking it apart. The flux carries it away like ringing out a bathcloth. I've got some cable with cores that are a bit odd, this method works even on them. That being said, some cable isn't worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 needs to get it hot in the center, and I have no clue why you would think its stainless steel inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 needs to get it hot in the center, and I have no clue why you would think its stainless steel inside. I'm going to try these suggestions tomorrow, the core wires spark like stainless, don't seem to oxidize and are extremely flexible even after annealing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 My thoughts. Soaking in vinegar for two days probably won't remove any galvanized from the center of the cable. Where's the galv. gonna go? It's in contact with the other strands. If the cable is just greasy like it should be just put it in the forge, no need to degrease the fire will do that. May be you are over fluxing? Take the center out if it is galvanized, slip another strand in there, drill rod , wrought iron, etc. Google wire rope check the MFG. pages and see if you can match what you have to the MFG. description. that should let you know what's in the center, maybe. Some MFG.'s are pretty close mouthed. There was a knife maker in TX, had a forge set up so he could twist the cable tight right in the forge, vise on one end. Initial welds were done with the twisting right in the forge. Works a treat I've done it this way. Saves time ,fuel and money my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Have you touched a magnet to the core? Pretty simple way to determine whether it is or isn't stainless. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I think I read somewhere that burning brake cleaner makes phosgene gas, which will kill you dead. Can anybody confirm this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zengineer Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 That is true of some brake cleaners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Any idea what the cable was used for in its past life? That just might help to figure out its makeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 You are probably looking at a cable with a higher tensile steel core. The cores are sometimes heavily lubed with a graphite or aluminium based grease so there will be no rust or staining of the core wires even though the outer strands are a bit oxidized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 Have you touched a magnet to the core? Pretty simple way to determine whether it is or isn't stainless. John Never even thought about that! ugh I feel dumb now I think I read somewhere that burning brake cleaner makes phosgene gas, which will kill you dead. Can anybody confirm this? Ya I've heard that, thats why I let it dry right out. Any idea what the cable was used for in its past life? That just might help to figure out its makeup. It was used in a crane at a scrapyard for "DA CLAW" (i've always wanted to operate one :P ) You are probably looking at a cable with a higher tensile steel core. The cores are sometimes heavily lubed with a graphite or aluminium based grease so there will be no rust or staining of the core wires even though the outer strands are a bit oxidized. That sounds very possible, but that shouldn't affect a forge weld if properly cleaned right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I think I read somewhere that burning brake cleaner makes phosgene gas, which will kill you dead. Can anybody confirm this? You have to apply high heat and argon gas to it to get phosgene. So no TIG/MIG. That would be bad. http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm I did a little research and this is no myth. |"Argon is key to it's formation during welding, but the hazard is not specific to Argon. What's going on is that phosgene is formed by decomposition of chlorinated hydrocarbons in high heat in an inert atmosphere. MIG/TIG arcs make an ideal reactor. The inert atmosphere prevents it from combining with nitrogen or oxygen instead to make other less harmful by products. Any inert noble gas (Argon, Neon, Krypton, Xenon) will do the same thing, as might CO2. Free Chlorine is also released - it too was used as a chemical warfare agent. The three essential ingredients for disaster here are: 1. Halogenated Solvents (contain Chlorine, Fluorine, Iodine or Bromine) 2. Electric Arc/Ultraviolet Light/Combustion Temperatures 3. Inert Atmosphere"| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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