Terrance W Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I don't recall the exact proportions my first attempt at building a smelting furnace from a 30 Lbs refrigerant tank I mixed Gypsum, perlite, plaster of Paris, Vermiculite. The gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate) did not hold up well at all. 2nd try I omitted the gypsum added a small amount of Portland cement, this portion has held up much better, to minimize the spalding in the lower Gypsum section I have applied Sodium Silicate gave it a lite firing and coated the interior with Rutlands fire place patch. this furnace is fired with a simple propane burner. 1-1/4" pipe and a 1/4" copper tube with a 1/32 hole drilled in the side aimed straight down the pipe. I have milted down Aluminum, brass and copper with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Have you looked at the date of the last post before yours? There are commercial refractories that are not only much more effective and safe but are really inexpensive, especially when you consider how much longer they last. You might want to read some of Burners 101 sub forum too. Were you to build a 1 1/4" linear type propane burner like Ron Reil's it'd melt your liner and if you'd built a jet ejector type like a: Mikey, Side arm or T it would've melted your liner in about 2/3 the time. I'm not making light of your melter I'm just pointing out there are inexpensive alternatives that are several times more effective and much safer. It's obvious you are a good craftsman I really like the looks of your melter. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 BTW you do realize that gypsum and plaster of paris are essentially the same stuff after the PoP has been mixed and set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfire Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Hi. Not sure if anyone is out there still watching this conversation started in ‘07 or so, but I found it, so maybe… I’m coming at the issues from a slightly different angle: I want to build a Kuznetsov Russian (masonry) stove. (Check stove.ru if interested and click the little Aa button to translate to English) It will be a high-temp wood burning heater. I believe temps in the firebox could exceed 2500 degrees F. The intent is for a hot fire to heat up a mass of masonry that then radiates to heat a space over the course of many hours. These stoves are typically built as an inner layer of firebrick, a narrow expansion break, and an outer layer of normal building brick or stone or other high-mass material. So the firebrick is not intended so much for insulation as for just a tough inner shell that can take the harsh conditions of wood combustion. Actual full Chamotte bricks are like 6 bucks apiece, plus shipping, and I may need a couple hundred of them, so I am looking for an alternative for my first attempt at building one of these. Also, there’s a likelihood that some stray building or insurance inspector will come sniffing around and tell me to dismantle it, so I don’t want to spend that kind of money on an experiment and am planning to make my own bricks. I dug up some clay from the backyard, but I’m not quite sure what to mix in. I have perlite, wood ash, sand, and mineral wool or rock wool. Kind of leaning away from perlite, as I feel a dense not-really-insulative brick is what I am after. Not too many here talking about wood ash, but seems to me like a good additive - it’s already burned, what can happen to it? I sifted it through a window screen, so it’s pretty clean, but still has some tiny charcoal bits in it, which may not be bad, since they will burn inside the brick and create tiny air pockets to give a some slight insulative quality. I’d be interested to read anyone’s thoughts on any part of this idea Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyForge Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Hi, I accidentally saw this conversation short answer: chamotte or grog is fired clay. E.g. there is no more moisture in it and no more/ minimal shrinkage or expansion when heated. To achieve these properties you need to fire your clay. In a kiln or hole in the ground or whatever. This will give you the raw materials at the cost of fuel to generate the necessary heat. You could skip that by getting raw grog, crushed toilet bowls or sinks. Still you will need a binder to form a brick from inert grog and then fire it and still need fuel.. Maybe there is a way to use a hole in the ground or an inexpensive throw away kiln to get you started to make your own? above are just my thoughts, hope you come up with something cheap and let me know. This is a good discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Have you checked around to see if anyone will be decommissioning a large old kiln for their hundreds of firebricks? Or rebuilding an industrial furnace. Not knowing which of the 100+ countries that participate on IFI makes it hard to have someone say; "the guy down the street is tearing down an XYZ and dumping the fire bricks!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfire Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) Thank you for taking an interest, Monkey and Thomas! I have not checked around, and I don’t have the first idea how to check something like that…I guess I could look up refractories or something…. I am in Wisconsin, so if YOU have some idea where to look in the Midwest, please let me know. Monkey, yes, I’m kind of thinking I could use some regular brick to make a temporary kiln to make permanent firebrick- I have a lot of salvage bricks, which I did use to make an oven for a charcoal retort (for the garden), but the bricks did not hold up well at all. I have since come across other ideas to smear an insulting layer of mud inside the brick structure (even for a permanent masonry heater), but have yet to attempt…this might be a good place for perlite additive to keep extreme heat from the regular clay brick. thanks again guys! (I mean that in a non-gender specific way! Edited December 11, 2021 by Mod30 Excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, Greenfire said: I am in Wisconsin We won't remember this once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 IMHO, The easiest grog is made from ceramic chimney liner or tile, available for free at the broken pile of any good mason supply. While there buy some washed sharp sand and some fireclay. Use equal amounts to make a decent cheap refractory. As to the Russian fireplace, been studying them for years first I have heard of this super hotness. I know for a fact it is not needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Call the local concrete company, if they don't carry fire clay they surely know who does. They'll also carry various types of aggregate, sand and evacuated silica spherules (bubbles) for light weight and decent insulation. For all the time and effort you're investing in making your own refractory liner you could mow lawns or clean stalls and buy a proven refractory for less investment. Frosty The Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.