Joel OF Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Hey folks, a while ago I asked if there were tools to help with bowl making, many of you were very helpful and told me that oxygen canisters have concave bottoms which I could sink into if I cut the bottoms off. A few months back at the scrap yard I came across 3 empty oxygen canisters of varying sizes, I cut the bottoms off but for a long time didn't get round to using them. I've finally had the time to do something with them and below are the pics of what I did. Please please please ignore the uglyness of it all, it aint a pretty system but it works! I just thought I'd show you all what I did with them so you know your efforts to help have made a difference, thankyou. I'm a little pushed for space in my workshop so I've come up with a system where I have 1 stand that each of the 3 cannister bottoms will fit onto... I've welded the 3 canister bottoms to bits of thick scrap plate and in the bottom of each plate I've drilled 3 holes in a triangle shape.(You can only see the holes in one of the plates but trust me there's holes in all of them). I found a decent height log then forged some 6mm plate to fit snugly over the top, I then drilled and screwed the plate to the log. On the top of the 6mm plate I welded 3 pegs in the same triangle shape as the holes I drilled. The idea being that the 3 pegs slot into the 3 holes which keeps the canisters from moving around too much. The final part of it was I welded some bits of scrap to the 6mm plate to make "pads" so that the canisters wouldn't get stuck on the pegs and if they do get stuck for whatever reason I've got a gap that I can get a crowbar under to prize them off. If you see any obvious mistakes or ways I could have done it better please feel free to keep the ideas to yourself haha. Drilling those holes too me forever and was incredibly boring so I'd hate to think it was a waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 that will work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Greetings Kurgan, Nice system... Get your stump up to working height so you don't have to bend over ... Belly button high works well.... Most oxygen tanks are made out of tool steel ( 4140 ) shine them up and sand to a mirror finish... I use them all of the time and they work well.. Good luck and keep forging Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 G'day Kurgan, we probably read the same post because I too went to the dump shop and ended up with three cylinders also. I haven't mounted my cut offs yet, but will soon. Your set-up looks good. I'm thinking along different lines, mainly because of noise and trying to get away from steel on steel for something like this. To that end I'm going to turn some timber down to fit tight inside the cylinders and then use a large peg to fit to the stump. That way it'll be timber to timber and should be much quieter.....anyhow just another idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I understood from your earlier post that the cylinder ends were convex rather than concave like these. My bad. What you have done looks fine, very versatile. You will be not be limited to using them on the stump and will be able to just use your tools directly on the bench on the floor or under a press when you get one, full marks. Did you see the videos and photos I made for you and posted to your earlier thread? unfortunately it was while the IFI site was not updating properly and you may have missed them. I would hate to think the time was wasted! I won't copy the images and text you can have a look on the old thread, these are the video links. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Cheers folks. Get your stump up to working height so you don't have to bend over ... Belly button high works well.... Most oxygen tanks are made out of tool steel ( 4140 ) shine them up and sand to a mirror finish... With the canisters on top of the log they are at anvil height, I'll be sinking 4mm+ sheet steel into these (not thin brass/copper sheet) so belly button would be a little too high for me as I think I'd quickly strain my forearm. Is the mirror finish to help the finish of the bowl or just for the aesthetic of the tool? I'm thinking along different lines, mainly because of noise and trying to get away from steel on steel Yeah I'll see how it goes, if it's too noisy I might adapt it or damped it down. I'm a drummer so dampening unwanted overtones is kinda second nature to me so I'm sure there'll be an easy fix if kills my ears. Alan, I hadn't seen these videos of yours before I'm afraid. Love your gadgets, your at the top rung of the ladder and I'm down at the bottom with half a foot on the first rung haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Polished tools are a huge time saver. My old metalwork teacher at school had it right.."the best way of taking marks out of metal is not to put them in". True on so many levels. Ah well if you did not see the videos first time around , go and have a look at the old thread and read the explanations as well. Glad you have seen them now so I didn't waste my time! The tools you have made will work just as mine do when you pick up a fly or hydraulic press, so nothing wasted. If you are using them by hand use a heavy mushroom shaped hammer rather than a ball pein, the principle of not having to straighten out the dimples is the same as my top tool. "Move a lot a little rather than a little a lot"....the temptation of using a small hammer face is to see a dramatic effect, but it is misleading, you have to then undo it. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 "Move a lot a little rather than a little a lot" Nice phrase. I could do with some raising stakes too, should they be a particular type of steel or would mild steel do? I've got some lengths of solid thick mild steel bar, some lengths of train track and the cyclindrical bodies from the oxygen canisters. Any tips for stick welding train track/railroad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Look around ex ministry places for stakes. The ones I have made have been from mild steel and stood up fine. I suppose it depends what they are for as to their longevity, one off or production. The ones I have purchased were either drop forged or cast. I am sure others will have advice re the rail welding but as far as I know there are different types of material used for rails. If in doubt about the material I always use 312 with either stick or TIG. It is designed for dissimilar metal welding and I use it for every thing, mild stainless tool steel and etc. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 What does "ministry" mean? I'm guessing you don't mean Ministry of Deffence? How come you favour 312 rods over 6013 for stick welding mild steel? I was under the impression 6013 were pretty much the standard for mild steel. I'm new to welding (but completely addicted) and am just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Yes ministry of defence. Ex forces. I use the 312 for dissimilar and unkown metals. Not for mild to mild or stainless to stainless. But for say mild to stainless. I don't know what alloy your rails might be so I suggested 312 as something that would stick to it whatever it was! I was recommended 312 and then when I read up about it, it seemed to be a wonder glue so I have used it ever since. It has repaired the hammer pallets and even the cast tup of the hammer. I use it to weld mild steel handles onto Progen tools. It seems to flow onto anything and stick tight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Sorry I'm still a little confused - are you saying I might find blacksmiths' anvil stakes at ex M.O.D sites??? It sounds like you're talking from experience, is there anywhere you've already been that I could Google to get an idea of what sort of place you mean? From your videos it looks like you've invested a fair bit of time and effort into making these bowl tools, are bowls something you specialize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Where they sell off ex military surplus stuff. My basic pairs of top and bottom tools, the swages and fullers for the hand anvil, all have the broad arrow and date on them, a lot from around the second world war. The big old second hand tool dealers like Crystal Palace Machinery and those listed in Exchange and Mart...I have just done a search and Crystal Palace no longer seem to exist but there will be machine tool dealers near you that will always have a pile of odds and sods that they do not bother to list but are too good to scrap. Look up your local ones and give them a call. They still have big auctions of Ex MOD stuff and these guys buy it up for peanuts and sell it on to the likes of us. For example this is the first one I found having done a google search for "used machine tools Kent" and then looked at the miscellaneous listing on this dealers site http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/cat_leaf.php?id=9170 there will be others even closer to you I am sure. Those actually look like a Vaughans' set possibly from a secondary school metalwork shop. I used to make the chestnut roasters I showed in your bowl tool thread number one and the marriage guidance council entrance gate I also showed in that thread. I have not specialised in bowls at all, but over forty years of making stuff you acquire a collection! But as you can see from the video once you have one set of tools it only takes a few seconds to make a bowl and I just made a few variations as required for specific shapes for specific projects I will dig out some example images if I get the time. Once you have the basic set you can make a tool set and the workpiece in less time than it will take you to make the first bowl using a stump and hand hammer..As the video showed I made four or five bowls, most in stainless steel, and one of which was a hemisphere in eight minutes, less than two minutes each....you would not get one (even mild steel bowl) done in eight minutes with a ball pein on a wood block! Alan Edited May 10, 2013 by Alan Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 They still have big auctions of Ex MOD stuff You learn something new every day! Cheers again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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