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So, I have some duralumin laying around and I decided to use it for the base of my forge (where the charcoal where be placed on). But I heard people say that aluminium releases toxic gases, is it safe to use duralumin, or should I change to something else? I also know that aluminium has a relatively low melting point compared to other metals, do you think that it would be able to withstand the heat? 

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no i think it would melt around where the air came in... I have seen my portable forge firepot glowing orange in the past would not try using aluminium.

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I'm not so sure you mean to use aluminum for the support the fire, if so, NO it won't work, it'll melt. If it's going under the forge as a foor for the stand, no sweat, it'll work fine.

 

Where do you hear about aluminum giving off toxic fumes? While it's been years I used to cast al and welded it frequently, I worked with guys who'd been welding al for 30+ years without health issues related to al.

 

For quite a while al was thought to cause Alzheimers till it was discovered the die they were using to stain brain tissue samples was based on ALUMINUM. New dies showed zero connection between al and Alzheimers, none. Simce though I occasionally hear horror stories about al and some unspecified danger. These are generally the same folk who believe vaccines and innoculations are the cause of disease not the prevention.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I think the things you're hearing about aluminum are probably related to the smelting of soda cans and the like as it's not the aluminum you should be worried about but the paint on the cans that release toxic fumes.

 

 

 

Smelting is the process of obtaining metal from ores. Melting is liquifing a metal.   Please do not confuse the terms.

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I know aluminum welding wire is bad stuff it says on the label produces chemicals that can cause cancer and birth defects or reproductive harm.

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I have heard (never fact checked) that welding aluminum for 30+ years will increase your chances of Alzheimers developing but thats about it. Here is the MSDS info on pure aluminum if this helps (This is only regarding pure aluminum and not any other type/ grade)...http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922844

 

-Crazy Ivan

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I know aluminum welding wire is bad stuff it says on the label produces chemicals that can cause cancer and birth defects or reproductive harm.

 

 

 

Almost all welding electrodes carry that warning label today because of California. Just about everything you can imagine causes cancer if you accept what they say. that includes the minute amounts of lead used in brass alloys of faucets for drinking water. The levels of "lead" that are leached from the brass is so minute as to be just about untraceable, but simply because pure lead is "dangerous" they have to put that silly warning label on stuff.

 

I'm not saying breathing the fumes is good for you, only that if you eliminated everything in your life with a warning label from California, you'd be living naked in a field using a book to determine what wild plants won't cause you cancer  if you  eat them.

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I have been a welder for ten years and I just really don't worry about any of fumes unless I get stuck working with galvanized. I completely agree with what your saying but one question about this field and book, what about the chemicals used in the ink? you may not have a book either lol


In all honesty I know guys that have been welding for 30+ yrs and are just fine and still at it. all I would suggest is be cautious and safe. enjoy yourself and have fun.

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Many years ago I remember a senior person at Carlfors Bruuk (Who make aluminium flake for paints, explosives and aerated concrete) saying, when somebody came up with the question of danger

"Sure we recently had two guys who had been working here a long time die..........Both over ninety years old"

Aluminium in itself is not harmful. The alzheimer scare was a mistake. There are no fumes. However, welding electrodes contain some kind of flux  and that could be a problem. One should avoid inhaling any kind of fumes or dust - they are a load on the lungs but not many are very harmful in limited quantities. Cigarette smoke and zink fumes are probably those that cause most problems. We have an inherent warning system in the throat that tells us to cough or even to get XXXXXXX out of the place. This is why we seldom have accidents with ammonia. The gas is so obnoxious in small concentrations so people keep their distance.

One danger in Aluminium is the low emission factor. Even molten aluminium radiates practically no heat so there is no warning before the burn occurs.

Cheers

Göte   

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It was interesting to re read this old post! :rolleyes: Warning sunlight causes cancer so you can't be in the field either!

Chris, if you're breathing the thermite fumes you're standing WAY TOO CLOSE ! Didn't you read the label?:D  

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Hi ianinsa yes  just the cleaning up grinding both on same machine the dust gets to gether  and

trouble think about that  but then even flower mill have gone up too from dust , So care that all i meant i welded ally for years most of the phone station boxes over here 

Chris

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Sorry Chris,  I was thinking sort of mix powder 'A' with powder 'B' put in clay flowerpot, suspend over mold and ignite with magnesium ribbon(sparklers as cheap substitute) setup.

Standing over and breathing fumes is way too close, here.:D

I'm with you on the dangers of grinding dust.

 

 

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Sorry Chris,  I was thinking sort of mix powder 'A' with powder 'B' put in clay flowerpot, suspend over mold and ignite with magnesium ribbon(sparklers as cheap substitute) setup.

I see you had the same Jr high school chemistry teacher I had. LOL. How to make thermite was one of the few things I remember from chemistry class. How to make dust explosions was #2 and came from the same teacher.

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Those were the days. Flour, a straw, a candle and a Whooof! We lit thermite with potassium permanganate and glycerine.

I don't even want to know what's being done in jr. high chemistry classes to impress the kids now. My Father talked about going on a middle school field trip to learn how to blow stumps.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yeah we loved his little demo with the paint can and candle, blowing the lid off with flour and a tube to blow thru. We egged him on until he took out the row of 8' florescent tubes over his work table with the lid and that ended that for the day... LOL

 

He also brought in a pool table for inelastic collisions and vectors. it made understanding energy transfer from A to B and angle in/angle out so much easier to understand.

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I had a history teacher that set fire to the 'school rules' posted on the back of the classroom door to show how anarchy and revolution start! I still remember that class clearly. Some teachers just get how to implant ideas, interest. That one started a lifetime's interest in history(which up to then I had thought of as interesting as an old 'lawn cigar' ).

 

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The more I study history the more I am amazed at the absolute level of Genius it must take to make it dull and boring!  History is the study of people doing wild and crazy things---and getting away with it or *not*!

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I never enjoyed a history class. I grew up when "history" was the process of memorizing names, places and dates. That's how you make the story of humans doing what humans do dull and boring. "The American Airforce bombed Berlin 1943-1945, end of lesson."

There was a "famous" high school history teacher who answered ANY question with, "When you've gone to school as long as I have you can ask me questions." I was immediately transferred to a different class when I replied, "If I'd gone to school as long as you have I'd be able to answer questions."

Smart Alec kid, ME? :o

You're right Thomas, it takes a "special" kind of genius to make history dull. I call them lazy, list checking . . . Can't say it in polite company, nevermind

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Edited by Frosty

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What gets me was what bunch of cretins set school syllabus rosters. Hey guys get the kids onto the interesting stuff, Then dump the boring stuff on them, use Hollywood type B/S like King Leonides and his 300 Spartans defended Thermopylae and conveniently 'forget' the 'assistance' of some 10 000 Thespians in facing down old King Darius. ( 300 my eye more like 10 300, but that sort of doesn't have the same punchiness does it?)

Tell those teenagers ' ever heard of Sadists? Well the original Sadist was The Marquis De Sade (AKA Marat) and he was quite a player in the French revolution, I think he did something to someone in the bath! You'll have those kids going to look up the stuff:D 

Edited by ianinsa

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Marat was assassinated in his bath; (famous picture of him there).  De Sade outlived him by about 20  years dying in an insane asylum.

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Don't get me started on history today. The customer had the TV news on when I came over to work this morning. 10 minutes of them jumping from one local 4th of July parade to another over the PA, NJ, De area, mostly talking to WWII vets, 5 minutes of the weather around the area for the day, then 30 minutes talking about the "celebration" of the 50th anniversary of the LGBT movement in Philadelphia.  Not word one about the history of the founding of our country, in the city where it all began with the Declaration of Independence!  What a wonderful way to remember our national history on the day we celebrate the founding of our nation. grumble.thumb.gif.a9268fcb2d2a5bb4b844a5

Edited by DSW

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Marat was assassinated in his bath; (famous picture of him there).  De Sade outlived him by about 20  years dying in an insane asylum.

Thomas, I should has guessed you would be in 'the know'  the AKA was a' red herring ' in the 70's it was thought that Marat 's murder had been arranged by the Marquis De Sade after a break up of their 'friendship' and later the Marquis was arrested and imprisoned for being a 'moderate'(I suppose you can't be Mr. Nice guy in politics) Incidentally I believe his bath was a 'slipper shape ' and not as depicted in the propaganda shot. er painting. :)

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Well of course whoever dunnit… if it was a bath made from Aluminium it would have got you all nicely back on topic…especially if the autopsy decided it was lung damage from Aluminium dust rather than dagger wounds wot done it ...

Alan

Edited by Alan Evans

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