Burner Designs?

[plane_crazzy]

I have been looking up different designs for a 3/4 venturi burner and am surprised that I could not find a thread on here discussing them.  I have porters book but his design seems different than most I see on peoples forges on here.  was wondering if anyone had some insight into this. His design seems overly complicated, but it could just be me overcomplicating it in my head.

[Frosty]

Mike's type 5 burner design is a precision design so it requires little if any tuning. Ron Riel's linear burners like the EZ are again precision made. Mike and I've gone around about some of his hypotheses but his burners work a treat and the proof is in the pudding.

 

The ejector type burners I make are more similar to the "Sidearm" burner first made by Robert Grauman some years ago. You can buy sidearm parts from Larry Zoeler and someone else but I can't recall his name.

 

If you search IFI under the gas forge section you'll find drawings of my burners and my forge. It's simple but like any naturally aspirated burner the more precise you build it the easier it is to tune and the better it will work. Still, if you can't figure out how to build a Porter from his book I don't know how much help my drawings will be.

 

Lastly, there's a very good reason for the variety in burner designs, looks and materials you see. We're blacksmiths, we ALL have our own ideas and all too often the skills to make it so. That is why you see so many different ways to do everything. you ARE familiar with what happens when you ask two blacksmiths a question, yes? You get at least three different answers and often several guys arguing about it.

 

Frosty the Lucky.

[jcornell]

I recently scaled down Larry Zoeller's "Z-burner" to 1/2 inch to accomodate a little coffee-can forge I'd built.  It's a blissfully simple design and very tolerant of everything but high winds.

 

 

 

Scaling it back up to 3/4" means using a 1 1/4" wye and a 1 1/4 to 3/4" bushing.

[jcornell]

once more, with attachment

[plane_crazzy]

So Frosty the complexity is warranted. I can figure the design out, just wondered it it was unnecessarily complicated. JC thanks for the effort but still no picture....

[jcornell]

Third time's a charm.

 

Instead of a split bushing, I just drilled a hole and tapped it for a 10-32 thumbscrew to hold the nipple in place.  What the diagram calls a sleeve is also called a face bushing.

 

The Z-burner is what Larry Zoeller calls his 3/4" burner - it's a variation on the sidearm burner, really simple, a sweet little burner.  I just made it smaller.

[jcornell]

grrr

[jcornell]

???

[plane_crazzy]

forum problem, its happening to alot of people. Considering I have no desire to use it outside the forge. Do I really need the flare on the end? I have been told they are there just so that the burner can be used by hand like a torch.

[Fe-Wood]

I've made a few of Mike Porter's burners. Yes, they do need the flair on the end, its what holds the flame from blowing out.

 

One suggestion I have about Mike's design-

He says to solder the Mig tip into the burner nozzle pipe. I upset the pipe so I could thread the mig tip in. Solder will melt if the heat back drafts up the burner tube as mine did once. 

[plane_crazzy]

anyone have any experience with the guru's burner on anvilfire's page?

 

http://www.anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/FAQs/gas_forges.htm

[jcornell]

Here's a little sketch of my latest burner.  Although the 3/4" burner is standard for homemade propane forges, I wanted a slightly smaller burner as I was making a bean-can sized forge.

 

 

It's based on Larry Zoeller's "Z-burner" which is a simple, robust burner.

 

Part                                        Number               Price  

1/8" 3.5" nipple                      4550K311             2.93  

1/2"  6" nipple                        44615K484           1.67  

¾ " to ½" face bushing          44605K262           1.86  

¾  to 1/8" bushing                 44605K319           2.78  

¾"  wye                                 44605K354           9.80

¾ to ½ " reducer                   44605K274           2.72  

 

total   $21.76 

 

All the part numbers are McMasters-Carr

 

It's crucial that the 1/8" nipple be schedule 80, not schedule 40.  The difference is in the thickness of the wall and the inner diameter (i-d) of the nipple.  You'll need a thicker wall to get a smaller i-d.  Schedule 40 is _almost_ thick enough, but after you've tapped it to receive the mig tip, you won't get a good seal and your burner will behave funny.  You'll need to drill and tap a hole in the 3/4" bushing to put in a set screw (I use 10-32 thumb screws on mine, but that's a matter of taste).

 

The $22 price assumes that you have the appropriate taps, drill bits, a drill press vise and a drill press (this would be too tricky to do freehand with a drill)

 

The 1/2" nipple can be sourced at the local big box store, as can the reducer I use as a flare - if it comes galvanized, you'll need to soak it in acid to eat the coating off.  Zinc and burners are not a good combination – with heat it makes a poisonous gas from which there is no remedy.  Pour water in a pail, add muriatic acid (you can buy it at the big box store) and then throw in the galvanized part.  Do this outside - it smells terrible, and the bubbles are hydrogen gas, which is a fire hazard. Rex Price charges $145 for his "shorty" burner which is comparable in size to what I've sketched.  He may well have a better product, but I'd like to keep the $120 in my pocket for now.  1/8" nipples vary in I-D and O-D, so you'll have to do some trial and error when drilling out the 3/4" bushing - the drill bits will be (in increasing size) 13/32, a Z bit and 27/64 size.  Use the smallest size possible to get your nipple into the drilled-out bushing.  An overlarge hole makes the mig tip off-center, which is not a good thing.

[jcornell]

and finally