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Dating a MASSEY 5


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I am currently dating a MASSEY 5cwt hammer, we have been going steady for a little while, but she has a few issues.....

 

i was wondering if anyone has a method of determining the date of a hammer by the serial? (John N ?)

 

-C1946-

 

here is Miss MASSEY

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41924895@N07/7727260824/

post-14484-0-76039600-1363348891_thumb.j

 

goes down alright (single), but i was hoping for multiple blows.

with a good tuning i'm sure she'll be a great banger. possibly needs a good packing?  

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  Hi Woody    contact Massey and give them the ref number , they  can tell you what colour underwear the  engineer was wearing on the day the hammer was shipped out, my guess is ,white, and on your hammer   late 1960          but  DONT take the  valve apart until you spoken to John N   (and your boss)

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Late '60's / early '70's at a guess from the serial number. Quite a new one as these things go!

 

A bit of video of it not doing what it should be doing and Ill have a guess at the problem. Its usually (in order) air leak from stuffing box, sticking or broken valve discs or springs, or the most worrying one, someone has tried to 'fix it' and monkeyed about with everything :)  

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Late '60's / early '70's at a guess from the serial number. Quite a new one as these things go!

 

A bit of video of it not doing what it should be doing and Ill have a guess at the problem. Its usually (in order) air leak from stuffing box, sticking or broken valve discs or springs, or the most worrying one, someone has tried to 'fix it' and monkeyed about with everything :)  

i am glad i am not that someone! ;)

 

there does appear to be a bit of leaking in the gland, to acess the gland material i am assuming i must remove the plethora of nuts around the stuffing box? :ph34r:

after that, you mentioned in a previous post the possibility of "coking of the valves" by excessive use in the single blow mode.

how would you suggest cleaning such an issue should it arise?

it appears to make a vibration through the handlever while i am trying to "locate" where the low pressure hold up should be, i can only say it feels "rough" where the sweet spot SHOULD be. :huh:

my attempt at video has failed dismally, i will try again.

it works in everything except low pressure holdup, and that is all a video would show anyway, unless i put a vibrational microphone on the handlever :wacko:

 

edit, by way of postscript.

either it has been working badly since they got it, or it is the stuffing box packing, as the paintjob on the side and top covers was unbroken until i removed the covers for a look. (i did not adjust or touch anything.)

so i believe that rules out monkeys........

so gland- caked valve- broken valve, is the way i will approach this beauty.

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Hi Woody,

 

Welcome to the Massey owners club, the serial no. on my 2CWT is 1449 so its a bit older, and smaller, than yours.

 

I had a similar problem with mine, no low pressure hold up, and solved it by following a couple of steps.

 

  1. Repack the stuffing box glands using a kevlar based packing.  Not difficult but it is heavy.  Take note of where everything is positioned and if you do need to drop the piston out make sure the rings go back on the positioning pins properly when refitting. JohnN or Moony should be able to reccomend someone close to you for the packing. While you've got it in bits check everything for wear so you don't have to do it later.
  2. Pull the valve spindle and check all the measurements/tolerances, taking bloody careful note of everything before you pull it to pieces and don't drop anything in the sump.  Most of the measurements can be done without disassembling the spindle.  Mine had excessive end float over the whole length of the spindle and I had to file a washer and put it under the top nut to tighten it up.  By the sounds of it this could be the problem with yours as mine didn't so much vibrate as "click" (I'm assuming it was the valves) in low pressure hold up and just tup about 10mm or so.
  3. Once everything is as it should be you will need to shim the swing out stop so it picks up properly.

The other thing I did was put the anvil/hammer at 45 degrees so I could feed really long bits through, but that was for my workshop settup.

 

Regards

Andrew

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Just for interest we have No.s C1037, C1891, C1265, Y4323 Y3947 and press No E764, also have another 7cwt but its down the yard and I don't feel like a walk at present.

Woody for kevlar packing try Walkers PL, for a 5cwt you will need 2 lengths of 800mm long 5/8 x 3/16 neoprene proofed kevlar tape talc finish (3 or 4 ply depending on the wear between the rod and the gland) I am currently using 3ply in our hammer and this packing has been in since 8/1/09 and our hammer runs every work day.  Easiest way to change packing I have found is to remove the top block,and drop the gland using a forklift (put a blade either side of the rod) and using a packer to hold the rod up about 300mm (lift the rod up without the top block while the hammer is still operable, before you remove the gland), put the gland down onto the bottom block then use the forklift to lift the rod up and chain it up so as you can remove the packer (the packer must be able to let the gland go over it) thern remove the gland with the forklift to a sturdy table or bench to work on it.  Give gland a good clean and blow out all the air holes that are drilled through it.  Fit the new packing in and trim it in there, make sure you stagger the 2 joins to opposite sides of the gland.  Replacement is reverse of removal just remember to oil the rod really well as you are sliding the gland back up, and make sure the packing stays in the groove as you begin to lift the gland up the rod.  Make sure the hammer is getting plenty of oil through the pump so as the rod stays oily and helps the packing stay nice.

 

Phil

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We use an oil that we were given 10 44's of and it is for that reason that I use it.  Its a crosshead engine oil as used in marine diesels, but I reckon a 460 grade hydraulic oil would be OK.  The oil designation we use is Castrol MPX40 an SAE40 oil (it says it is a multipurpose engine oil designed for crosshead engine applications), basically an engine oil without the normal detergents that motor engine oil has.  Call an oil rep and quote what I have given you, see what they can come up with.  I think that Kymon uses a diesel engine oil too.  The steam locos here use 460 grade hydraulic oil in the bearings etc.

 

Phil

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Oh yeh when you cut/fit the gland packing it is better to have it slightly too long so as you have to press it into the slot, that way it will stay there as you put the gland back onto the hammer/rod.  If you cut it short or just to lenght it will tend to want to fall out as you move the gland around and lift it up.  (Thats why I said cut the packing to lenght actually as it is sitting in the groove in the gland, cut it slightly longer then sort of knead it all into the groove).  You can always cut some more lenght off the packing if you have cut it too long and the gland is too tight, if its too short you're stuffed.  You also need to allow for the packing to be pressed right into the corners as you slide it over the rod.  800mm will allow for a little bit of trimming to suit your hammer gland.

 

Phil

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Hi Woody,

 

It was a combination of all three.  Once the packing and valve train were right it would lift itself up but then I had to shim the swing out stop so that it sat on the sweet spot where it would lift.  It's still a bit variable as to how much it lifts when cold but after working for a while it seems to lift all the way up fairly consistantly.

 

Andrew

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  • 3 months later...

Hey Woody

Can we get video of where you are trying to get the stop lever and control handle to sit while trying to get the hammer to go into auto hold up (low pressure), the table you sat the camera on was obscuring all of that in your last video,

 

Cheers

Phil

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  • 4 years later...
  • 2 months later...

Looking into it's history, I was given this info: C1946. :-  This is a 5 Cwt Clear Space Hammer made in 1962 and supplied to Adelaide Steamship Co.

it would have been used in their workshops building steamship parts, and later sold to a secondhand machinery broker who sold it to the mill i got it from.

So after coming halfway around the world, it crossed the country from south  to north, and ended up in cairns!

When i sent this photo to my wife, she said it looked like a steamship, days before I found out its history!

20180307_100328.jpeg

unnamed (1).jpg

The Adelaide Steamship  C°y offices in cairns

images (3).jpeg

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On 3/19/2013 at 7:47 PM, forgemaster said:

Just for interest we have No.s C1037, C1891, C1265, Y4323 Y3947 and press No E764, also have another 7cwt but its down the yard and I don't feel like a walk at present.

Woody for kevlar packing try Walkers PL, for a 5cwt you will need 2 lengths of 800mm long 5/8 x 3/16 neoprene proofed kevlar tape talc finish (3 or 4 ply depending on the wear between the rod and the gland) I am currently using 3ply in our hammer and this packing has been in since 8/1/09 and our hammer runs every work day.  Easiest way to change packing I have found is to remove the top block,and drop the gland using a forklift (put a blade either side of the rod) and using a packer to hold the rod up about 300mm (lift the rod up without the top block while the hammer is still operable, before you remove the gland), put the gland down onto the bottom block then use the forklift to lift the rod up and chain it up so as you can remove the packer (the packer must be able to let the gland go over it) thern remove the gland with the forklift to a sturdy table or bench to work on it.  Give gland a good clean and blow out all the air holes that are drilled through it.  Fit the new packing in and trim it in there, make sure you stagger the 2 joins to opposite sides of the gland.  Replacement is reverse of removal just remember to oil the rod really well as you are sliding the gland back up, and make sure the packing stays in the groove as you begin to lift the gland up the rod.  Make sure the hammer is getting plenty of oil through the pump so as the rod stays oily and helps the packing stay nice.

 

Phil

Hi Phil

I was just reading your post here and saw that one of your hammers is only a couple of numbers from mine which is Y4348, its a 2CWT inslide whats the approx age of yours if you know. Mine was from the invercargill railway work shop Cheers Beaver

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