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Easy (?) question -- good bit material?


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Sorry, I tried the search function but it doesn't like to word "bit" for some reason.

 

I'm doing well with the early steps of making a tomahawk head, and am now ready to make one with a bit insert. Could anyone give me some advise on an insert which is:

 

1) Easy on beginners to weld well

2) Durable enough to bother with

3) Relatively easy to obtain, and obtain again if I actually pull it off

 

I'm using the folding "bow tie" method right now and would like to not just put the bit in a cut made in the edge, but also fill in the triangle shaped gap that forms between the two side as you fold them together, to bulk it out and making it more axe's slight wedge then the sudden blade-then-round-cheek transition I've been making.

Thanks, as always!

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I am also going to suggest spring steel. Used automotive flat springs are fairly readily available. When I walk around a scrap yard I normally come across some laying loose on the ground. Not all scrap yards let you look around so you may have to check a couple to find a good one that you'll end up going back to over and over. You can get thicknesses of 1/4" to 1/2".  You will have to grind the sides clean of rust.

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The chrome in 5160 does give some folks trouble in forge welding, And do not forget that some leaf springs me be 5160 some may not. For me I spend alot of time in prep work before welding add to that the time got shaping and welding. So I make sure exactly wot it is I am welding. The price of new steel is not enough for me to risk my labor in a iffy weld.

I would Never use a failed piece of steel in the making of a new piece, cracked burnt or anything I do not like I leave it in scrap pile, Not about to , in this case, try and weld it into a piece I had formed to the shape I ilike for an axe or hatchet head, only to find the crack is still there or the part that was burned will not take or hold and edge.

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If an Apple has a bruise don't eat the bruise. Cut the Apple in 1/2 and eat the good part. Save and reuse whatever you can. Steel especially high carbon steels are expensive. I never said I'd use the burn end or the.cracked part.

 

really ?  you train with a guy called River something or other? Please state where you came to that desision? fyi high carbon isnt more than $3 a pound around here. if that seems expensive, you are in for a supprise when you buy belts for a grinder.

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Homeshow that apple thing really does not hold true for steel the same...For wotever reason the steel is rejected the issue may remain hidden inside where we cannot see it,,If we use a piece with hidden issues, we take a chance on a problem later. I believe I can forge a wrap head hatchet with a bit insert in about an hour,,,including heat treating the edge. Then for the finish I like it will take close to that again with cold work. No matter wot or how I figure my rate per hour of shop time. If there is a failure I have lost those minutes forever. Period. If this is a custom order I am stuck with the original quoted price. So I am working for half the pay I thought I could live with. I do not want to look at that loss and say,,,,i should have used good steel for the bit, and it would not have cracked, or Dang it just will not take and edge and hold it.

You may look at this from a different angle and say you are not looking to make a profit. I understand that. But wot if that changes and you sell a piece now and then and you may be able to add tools or materials to your set up? A key point at that point is you are only as good as the last thing that leaves your shop. Whatever that piece is and how it is made and how it works establishes your reputation. And that holds true even if it is given away and you tell the new owner that it has problems and exactly wot they are.

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Blackcat I wandered of onto a rabbit trail here,,, back to your question: I have used pieces of farriers rasps for bits in hatchets. Some are now case hardened, but some are not,,Simply translated take a rasp and heat to non magnetic and quench in warm oil,,,test it with a file and see if it hardened. If the file skates and removes no material it is high carbon and will work as a bit. Or for wotever you need HC for. If it does not harden is was likely case hardened and not for wot you wish.

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Thomas i would in this context:  A lot of the folks that read this will be those that are stepping their game up to steeling an edge.Not the same as those that have been working with high carbon steels enough to know how to tell steel that is damaged or good using simple shop methods. A lot of us could take pieces of the burnt tip steel and cut samples,,test and determine..I outlined simple testing in one of the early knife making lessons. Homeshow has been given opportunites,,,such as when Steve asked him how to tell good from bad. He did not answer. It is not as simple as slicing a bad looking piece of the apple and looking in to see if you have nice looking apple. And it is not something that cannot be learned by anyone.

I try and Hellp folks that are learning avoid makin at least a few of the common mistakes that are part of my history. One thing I cannot help them with is sorting out what advice from who they should listen to be reading these forums. Fortunately if they read for a while they can pretty well sort that out.

And to me when someone posts something on here that does not hold water  There are many folks that help make sense of the issue. I believe that is wot keeps me involved here,,the depth of information from so many folks that will share.

 

I read everything you post...thanks.

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another example is A2,  I have forged with it, and I forge welded it.  will I ever suggest it to anyone else?  no, not unless I know that they are well advanced in this area of skill.  Why offer solutions that are a lot of trouble to learn in addition to the basic skill at hand, IE. learning to steel a bit?    A beginner wants instant gratification, to see themselves make something happen.  They wont get it very often smithing, but we can make things a little faster and less painful for them to learn by starting slow and simple and leaving the high alloy, and 'hard to tell if its burnt' scraps for people with more experiance.

 

Homeshow may be a good smith, but his comments show he is not experianced in teaching beginners working steel, few of us are. Teaching is an art unto itself, I have been teaching over 20 years, and I still stumble a lot when I attempt to get new ideas across.  I have learned the best way to get ideas across is to break them down into small  simple sections and build on them as they are mastered.   If we dump too much on at once the student experiances information overload, and they get very little from the lesson, usually they confuse things.  So we eliminate as much as we can, and forcus on the forge weld itself, and not the material.  Later intorduce a new difficult to work material only after the student has learned how to make a good weld with easy material, this eliminates complications as to why it didnt weld. If we know the student already can weld simple steel,  that only leaves the new eliment of the harder to work steel as the issue this time.  I admit that sometimes I wonder how anyone ever learns from me :o  but I do try.

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find a spring shop and see if you can have their drops. Sometimes they may let you have them for free, or at least at scrap price and you are sure of what you are getting. At least the ones i get i know. They tell me what it is and a lot of the drops have the labels still on them.

 

Fred.

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find a spring shop and see if you can have their drops. Sometimes they may let you have them for free, or at least at scrap price and you are sure of what you are getting. At least the ones i get i know. They tell me what it is and a lot of the drops have the labels still on them.

Fred.


Great idea!
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