Straightening my leg

[ndnchf]

I'm a newbie and I recently picked up this Columbian #2 vise. Its in good shape except for a little bit of a bend in the leg. What is the best way straighten it? Can it be done cold (it got bent cold) or is it safer to heat it up to a dark red first? I'd appreciate your insight and experience. Thanks - Steve

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

I've straightened many vices. I never considered doing it cold. It is a simple matter with heat. Just take it apart so it is not too cumbersome. I just straightened a large vice last week for a friend.

[Timothy Miller]

It would be best to heat it to a orange heat not heat it to dark red.  Steel when heated to the lower end of the visible heats is not really hot enough it is possible for the steel to crack at that heat especially if it has been strained before at that location.  If you are worried about ruining the nice old brown patina wire brush it wile it cools down it wont exactly match but it will look good.  Also you are missing a washer between the screw and the front jaw of the vise.  If you don't have that it will wear into the body of the vise. 

[bigfootnampa]

If it is only a slight bend (it looks that way) I would probably give it a few whacks and see if it straightens easily before I resorted to heating it.  Very small adjustments are often more easily done without heat anyway.  You can easily overcompensate with a hot adjustment.  I've straightened lots of tool steels that way.  Even springs can easily be curved/recurved cold and there is a spring manufacturer near me that does ALL their coil work cold... up to

1 1/4" diameter!  If you can cold coil 1 1/4" diameter stock it ought to be no tough job correcting a very slight bend in the leg of your vise.  

[ndnchf]

I need to take a better photo of the leg where the bend is. This one doesn't show it very well. When looking at the profile, I'd say the bend is about 1.5" - 2" off vertical at the bottom. I hadn't noticed the missing washer, thanks for the heads-up. I'll a search for similar columbians and see what it looks like. It shouldn't be hard to make.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

 

I use a large flat washer (make one) and two clutch release bearings (thrust bearings). The release bearings are available from your local auto repair scrap pile or auto parts store. Most of them are similar when you take the body of the throw-out bearing apart (usually 1 1/2" ID or more). It makes the post vice work wonderful, less friction when pinching something and then releasing with less effort.

 

I always keep a pile in my locker at work. When I see one on the ground, it magically jumps into my locker!! :)

 

Neil

[ThomasPowers]

Older vises may have real wrought iron legs and not like cold straightening at all!   Such a vise should be worked at wrought iron working temps!  (I have one with a greenstick fracture that I need to forgeweld back together, maybe with a bit more WI to "help" it in it's further life...)

[Alan Evans]

Good Morning,
 
I use a large flat washer (make one) and two clutch release bearings (thrust bearings). The release bearings are available from your local auto repair scrap pile or auto parts store. Most of them are similar when you take the body of the throw-out bearing apart (usually 1 1/2" ID or more). It makes the post vice work wonderful, less friction when pinching something and then releasing with less effort.
 
I always keep a pile in my locker at work. When I see one on the ground, it magically jumps into my locker!! :)
 
Neil

Thrust bearings definitely a good thing, all the energy goes into the grip rather than the friction.

I have found that ordinary ball bearing races that size have sufficient axial thrust for a vice, obviously dedicated thrust bearings are better.

Alan

[ndnchf]

Is there any way to easily tell if this vise is wrough iron? It has the older style bench mount with key and wedge. But I'm not sure how to tell its age or composition otherwise. The thrust bearing sounds like a very good idea.

[Alan Evans]

Is there any way to easily tell if this vise is wrough iron? It has the older style bench mount with key and wedge. But I'm not sure how to tell its age or composition otherwise. The thrust bearing sounds like a very good idea.

The bench mount being a drop forging or casting makes me think it is newer rather than older, but the lack of chamfers and the forgework of the vice look older than the bench mount. But what do I know? Someone on here will have made a study I am sure.

With regard to the thrust bearing/washer..... it does appear to have a cup washer when I zoom in, is that right?

It looks a fine serviceable vice. What is the thread like? Anything else you can fix easily.

Alan

[ndnchf]

It does have a heavy cup washer at both ends. I thought it did when I took it apart earlier. I had to zoom in to the photo to be sure. So there should be a flat washer (or thrust bearing) under the cupped washer at the handle end? I'll get some close up photos tonight. The threads have a little wear at the handle end, but not too bad.

[Alan Evans]

The cup washers are radiused to allow for the angle change as the jaws open and close, so if you introduce a thrust washer/bearing that goes in between the cup washer and jaw obviously.

All my leg vices I washed out the thread box and packed in some graphite grease, I always intended to do it regularly to stop the grinding grit wearing the thread....the road to hell is paved with good intentions!

Alan

[ThomasPowers]

All of my earlier vises have chamfered legs while my youngest ones do not (this includes the one dated to pre 1800)

 

I have had several columbians that do not have any leg chamfers some of which had the original manufactured mounting plate.  I also have one similar "indian chief"; again with no chamfers.

 

Signs of age include: use of real wrought iron; tanged mount, use of slots and wedges instead of bolts and nuts; built up screwbox: my earliest one the screwbox is forge brazed from a number of pieces and then the screw thread was made by coiling the thread stock around the male thread; un screwing it, and then forge brazing it into the screwbox.

 

I see chamfered legs vs non-chamfered legs as being a design choice by some companies to make them prettier or "industrial" and "cheaper"

 

This of course apples to the vises commonly found in America. I would not be surprised to learn that other countries had styles preferred in them historically.

[Alan Evans]

Thomas, I may have asked you this before, but do you have any clues as to whether the brazed coil thread was a creative repair or original manufacture?

Alan

[Timothy Miller]

The brazed coil was the original way internal threads were made on vices.  Cut threads are a more modern invention.  All of my older vices have brazed threads.

[ndnchf]

Here is a photo that better shows the leg of my vise. Its not a big bend, but it is noticeable.



Here is a close up of the vise showing the dished collar. So from what you guys are saying, there should be a washer between the collar and outer jaw - right?

[brian.pierson]

ndnchf,

 

  Not necessarily. If you add another collar to take that space up then you are decreasing the distance between the jaw that the vise can open. The gap that was showing in your first picture was the reason, why I believe, people were saying you were missing a part. The front leg should be tight against the ball and collar. The spring is not keeping the leg against the collar. I would look at the spring and see if it can be replaced or reshaped. It will also deform the spring more as you. Do a search on here and you will find advise on replacing the spring.

 

all,

 

   This thought makes me wonder if everyone tightens down their vise while not in use. I have broken springs in my flint lock by leaving them compressed. I usually leave mine open when not in use. Just curious.

 

Brian P.

[bigfootnampa]

I leave my vise in whatever position I last used it.  My spring is made from a leaf spring and way heavy strong and heat treated properly... I expect it will FAR outlive myself!  If it does not I can make another in about a half hour!

[Timothy Miller]

Upon further inspection you have all the parts.  The original washer is in place  I have that exact vise.  I use it almost every day.  It is a wonderful tool and grips very well.  Those vices as far as I can tell were drop forged steel.  I think it would be safe to straighten it cold because the bend is small.  You just have to be careful many old leg vices are a metallurgical hodgepodge.  With some parts forged from wrought iron others steel and even some cast iron here or there you need to know what you are working with and proceed with caution.  

[Pug}{maN]

I leave mine however far open it was from the last project..

[bigfootnampa]

Personally I would take that bend out cold with about three medium strikes of my 4 pound hammer... but you could easily disassemble it, heat the leg in the forge and then straighten it... I could have done 5 of them in the time I have spent on this thread!  Life is short!  Plenty of work awaits!

[Timothy Miller]

I remember reading in an old book on vice work that the vice should be left with the jaws apart 1/2 of an inch with the handle in the down position.   I thought to my self at the time why bother.  Well upon further experience it really made sense for two reasons.  One, if the handle is sticking out at an angle it can catch on your clothes and cause you problems.  Two, the vise is open and ready for work, with a quick turn of the handle either way you can grip stock bigger or smaller with little effort in the range of most frequently worked sizes. 

[ndnchf]

That first photo was taken when I first got it. Since then I have taken it completely apart. The nut at the bottom had been overtightened, causing the outer jaw leg to be pinched very tightly at the bottom, not allowing the spring to push it open. I have taken care of that problem and it now opens pretty well by the spring. But I have not yet lubed and painted it, because I want to take care of the bent leg first. I'll take it back apart and put that leg in a press and see if I can straighten it out.

Glad to hear I'm not missing anything after all.
Thanks Guys

[Alan Evans]

You do not need a thrust washer as Brian rightly says, but as swedefiddle and I said it improves the vice use. In the rare/unlikely event of needing to open the jaws to their full extent you could always remove the thrust bearing in a matter of seconds.
Alan

[Timothy Miller]

You do not need a thrust washer as Brian rightly says, but as swedefiddle and I said it improves the vice use. In the rare/unlikely event of needing to open the jaws to their full extent you could always remove the thrust bearing in a matter of seconds.
Alan

I have that exact vice in near mint condition.  It requires no improvement it is the best vise I have ever used.  I have spent 100's of hours filing at it.