Trip Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hey yall, Yep you read that right, i'm thinking of tearing down my masonry forge that I built. There are several design issues that can't be fixed. #1: It's to tall. after using Dave Custer's new forge, I realized that my forge it to tall for me to be able to properly see the piece in the fire. #2: it's to wide. #3: If any thing goes wrong with the air pipes, it requires crawling in a bunch of coal ash, and working in a VERRY cramped space. #4: Can't add tool racks, metal holders, ect #5: blower changes can't be made (to much detail to get into, I can only use my hand blower the way I designed it, and it can't be changed) Those are just a few of the reasons's that I'm thinking of taking it down, and replacing it with a steel forge. The design idea I am thinking of is a steel forge with a electric blower mounted under the forge, a quench tub mounted on the front top ( kinda like old champion forges), tong, tool, and hammer rack on the "working side" of the forge, have the ability to be operated from both sides (control of airgate), and a oil quench tub on the back (for quenching knives, tools, ect). Yall got any idea's how I can fix my current forge, or design idea's for a new steel forge? thanks, Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neg Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 As far as tool racks go, you can drill a hole in the mortar to mount something on it. Worked perfectly fine with mine. Or maybe you could make a tool rack that grips to your bricks on the outer edge and hangs down the side... Either way it'd be a real shame to tear down a forge as nice-looking as yours for just a metal frame one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pug}{maN Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 If you don't like it take a hammer to it! It's no fun to work on something that is not right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoosterretsooR Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Are you looking to have us stop you? Otherwise re-make it...Practice, Practice, Practice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Are you looking to have us stop you? Otherwise re-make it...Practice, Practice, Practice.... No, I'm just looking for advice, or idea's that I haven't thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 use pavers to raise your floor height to make it the right height for you... maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert A Rasch Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Trip, If you are not happy, then tear it down. It's tool like all others, albeit a very aesthetically appealing one! None-the-less, if you can't concentrate on the work being done, because it's the wrong, height, can't get to this o that, tools aren't handy, then your just getting aggravated instead of enjoying the task and creating things. I was contemplating building something similar, but with with wider gothic arches, and a removable top plate. Still in the planning stages. I am glad you mentioned height as i will have to look into that. Good post, and great ideas Trip! Regards, Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam C. ToolSmith Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 it seems a shame to loose such an awesome forge, is it possible to just have a steel forge as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 If the problem was only the access for clearing the air tube, You could just chop out the lower front opening and install a wider arch back to a convenient depth. That might also allow access to the air tube so that you could reroute for your electric blower. The fire pot might even be moved forward for better vision. Additional information would be helpful. Is the forge table concrete or steel, the support blocks solid or hollow, is the height a condition that can be lived with ? To remove and modify the masonry may seem an impractical task. However if you use a hammer drill to drill out the mortor joints it can be done neatly and with relative ease. I hope you can fix it because tearing it out would really be a loss. One other thing - You should be able to fasten tong racks to each side without limiting access to the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Consider this a prototype for your next forge. Now you know what to fix. You can make a steel frame to support the forge and just face it with brick veneer. Looks the same but allows you access to the internal stuff for changes. You can even put it on wheels so it can be moved out of the way when you want to sweep or clean. Remember that it is all built around a steel framework and then dressed up to look nice. You can build access doors faced with the brick veneer. Flip the latch and swing the entire panel or door open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Building forges ughh! I've built a half dozen or so in my 7 years of smithing. All of them needed tweaking. You learn every-time. There are some minor things that I don't like about my newest forge, but it is WAY more AWESOME than my last on, because I eliminated everything that I disliked about that one. The thing with masonry forges is they look awesome. That's the up side. The down sides are as follows. You can't move them You can't really alter them much They are bulky You can't sell it unless you sell the whole shop They require a gigantic hole in the roof They are a pain to disassemble and a other than learning the hard way, are a total loss monetarily. The bads out-way the goods. The only way I'd ever build a masonry forge is if I'd designed a steel forge that I loved EVERYTHING about. Having used your forge and seen it in person, I would advocate a total rebuild, but this time in steel! If you make one and don't like it because of this or that, sell it, and rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Hey yall, thanks for all the idea's. My forge is concrete blocks faced with bricks, so I can't take down just a single row of bricks. Also, the top is brick. The way I did that was basically build a steel table that sat inside the block, then lay brick on top of it. the height is doable but for me to be able to see the temp of the metal in the fire pot, I have to pull the steel out and look at it, and it seems to make it scale up more, but that just might be in my mind. My shop space is kinda limited, so I can't really do a second forge, or it will be to cramped. I also would like to replace my hand cranked blower with a electric one, like what is on Dave Custer's new forge, and I don't think I can do that with this forge. Glenn, I kinda like your idea, but isn't that veneer made out of a cardboard like material? That idea though did give me a idea, of welding angle steel to the bottom of the forge, to hold bricks, if I wanted to give it a masonry look, but still have casters, to where it could be moved, if the need ever arose (I still have around 500 bricks left over from building my current forge). thanks, Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 There's absolutely no reason you can't mount an electric blower on the side of the brick to use the same piping that the hand-cranked blower uses. Would the height of the table be suitable to you if you moved the fire pot closer to that edge? The width is only a problem depending on if the fire pot is centered in a wide table. Moving it closer to the main working edge by even six inches would change the viewing angle dramatically and leave you more room on the off side for tools, fuel and/or quenching tanks. The look of the forge is very nice. I would open up the access channel to make sweeping easier, but that's about it. Of course, that's if moving the fire pot made the difference for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 isn't that veneer made out of a cardboard like material?[/quote[ You are only covering the steel frame. I would have to check on the material composition. This *system* could be used for your forge. All you need is a wooden frame to attach it to. If you want it to look more like stone. Look at 1:10 for a joint, or combining two sections. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlmVnh4kBbY Another style of assembly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tjZ1r5btug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Although its a beautiful piece of workmanship, that would be proud to be in any smithy, I have to agree with others.... IF it does not fit your needs, or you are unhappy with height or shape or access.... Them take a hammer to it....Nothing worse than working with "tools" you are unhappy with.... On blower mods... A electric blower is simply a replacement for a mechanical one... Do not make it over complicated, its just a air mover directed through tubing..... I am using a 12 volt heater blower out of a Datsun 240Z powered by a 6 volt battery charger on my forge, and just acquired (for free in junk pile) a simple 110volt blower off the back of kitchen dish washer that has more than enough air flow to send sparks a flying in forge... Some forced air furnaces also have small blowers for feeding the burner that are very well adapted to forge use...Also IF blower is a little bit of distance away from bottom of fire pot you can even use PVC pipe to route air. just put metal duct feet last few feet If there is a danger of melting PVC (round or square metal downspout parts comes to mind)..... The pipe tuyere on my brake drum forge barely gets warm to the touch just below "fire pot" after a couple hours of use... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Trip if we look at the time prior to building this when yoiu were having problems with a different forge. My suggestion then was to do something basic and work with it and see if you could visit other shops and see wot they were using and asking if they would do something different. Then slowly decide on a plan for something you would use and build it.. i still think that is the way to go. build something using ideas from the forums and use it,,,,change as needed as often as needed and use it,,,keep that up until yoiu have it right,,then if you wish a nice look add that to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Before you tear it out, if it were me I would remove some of the masonry on the two sides creating a much larger opening through from one side to another. Mortar has compression strength, but not sheer strength, so with a bit of patience you should be able to remove an area of brick on each side. Cape Chisels are what I have used for this purpose. Cement blocks can be cut or removed by breaking them at their weak spots with either a hammer, or if you wish to make it neater a brick hammer or brick chisel. http://autonopedia.org/crafts_and_technology/Tools/Tools_and_How_to_Use_Them/Chisels_and_Gouges.html I have seen masons cut blocks by rapping the blocks with the edge of their trowel, breaking blocks or part of blocks out is pretty easy. I have built most of my tables to about 27 inches in height, and forge openings at about 30 to 36 inches in height, see my calculations in the bottom right corner of the diagram of the Portable Forge as shown below. Remember that you can more easily raise the height on a masonry table than to lower it. What I have tended to have seen done with masonry forges is either a masonry table, that is four masonry legs with large open masonry arches on three sides, or four masonry legs with a steel plate as the top so that everything is open except the legs and perhaps the back. The masonry forges that I would love to build, if I ever win the lottery, would be like the ones I saw being used by the Furnace Town Blacksmith Guild http://www.furnacetown.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I'm on my third forge and fourth bellows. 99% of the guy's at the annual hammer in are using some version of a hand crank blower with a steel forge table and iron fire pot. Virtually all of them were on their second forge. Most were on their first blower. The last one percent are propane (farrier) forges with one lonesome guy with an awesome cavalry type double lung bellows forge. I forge outside on weekends when I get a chance. Building/fixing forges and bellows has cost me the lions share of the last three summers. I'm much happier with my forge now but it's tried my patience severely. Copying a working forge I liked would have been a better way to go. I tried to merge different ideas into it which took a lot of tweaking. I can say I learned a lot about building forges and bellows but I'd rather be able to say I'd learned more about blacksmithing. For something so "simple" it's absolutely amazing how much I could struggle with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Esposito Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Can you just fix it without destroying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Can you just fix it without destroying it? well I have looked at it a LOT and with the issues I have with it, I will have to take it down. :( For now I am going to have to live with it, because I have to many other things that have to be done to my shop (insulating the roof, insulating the walls, and installing a heat unit that will be hooked up to the wood furnace). But when I do take it down, I will replace it with a steel forge, and if I like it, then I may "face" it with brick to give it that masonry look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck in Ms Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well Sir, I am sorry to hear that. About every argument I have to modify it has been addressed so I will look forward to seeing your next forge build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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