Dale M. Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 DISCLAIMER: I am new to blacksmithing but not new to "mechanical things" or "fabrication"... I have been reading for weeks on internet forums and looking at many images of anvil stands and have come to conclusion there is no definitive answer what constitutes a "proper anvil stand"... I have seen single pipe columns and single vertical 'I" beams , and three legged and four legged welded steel and traditional wood "stumps" and laminated 2x4 and 4x4 and large (300 lb) concrete stands and various indescribable concepts.... I have a 100lb anvil and have fabricated a 4 legged stand and am having trouble leveling stand.. Ahhh!!! Everyone will say the "one leg to long" syndrome.... But not so!.. it seems no matter where I put it on shop floor, its not lever, the floor that is, after having marked legs for "adjustment" many times I can not determine what is longest leg.... Seems to be all legs are same length and floor is really the problem... In graphic above the stand is mocked up and tack welded together. Legs are 2in square tubing and I intend to put a pad (3 inch square) at bottom of each leg so it is not hammered out of shape or beat into floor and permanently scaring floor.. So would it be ok to make one leg adjustable?... Its no problem to cut one leg short and add threaded insert and weld a bolt to one of the pads.... Would this be a problem or would this adjustment concept be beat into nothing useable over time... I was thinking something robust like a 3/4 inch bolt.... Also is it necessary to chain anvil down to stand as it sits in a upturned angle iron base and can't "walk" off stand.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Why not make a 3-legged stand? You could take off the 2 legs on the horn end, and put one of them back, centered under the horn. It would solve the stability issue, and it might make it easier to work around the anvil because there will be fewer legs getting in your way. Regards, Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Upham Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I agree, 3 legs are what make milk stools and anvils set on an uneven surface with out "rocking"! Many use a room temperature curing rubber adheasive (RTV for example) to attach the anvil to a steel stand ... the stand disrupts the acoustic resonance (ring) making the combination of steel stand and anvil much quieter. I have used this technique for several years and am very satisfied. Herb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 3 legs for the win! As for " if an adjustable leg will work": yes no or maybe depending on information you didn't supply. In general: For fairly light work when I teach smithing, my anvils are just dropped onto their stumps between curved 2x4 cut outs nailed to the stumps. Makes it easier to separate the anvils and the stumps for moving from my shop to the class area and back again. For heavy work on my 515# anvil I found I needed to put in a handful of fence staples to keep the anvil from gradually shifting under sledging. A positive method of holding an anvil down will often work to quiet a loud anvil. However the Vulcan you have is a quiet anvil and so shouldn't need it. Now if you do a lot of bending of rod using the hardy hole you may want your anvil "tied down" to avoid tipping it over. So you see a lot of it depends on how *YOU* will be using it; something *WE* don't know unless you tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revtor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If you weld feet onto the legs and then bolt the feet down you'll keep it from rocking... If it's not too wobbly to begin with. But going to 3 legs is probably the same amount of work and a better stand in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes...attaching the base to the floor..very firmly is a good thing. I suggest the pads for the floor to be 3 1/2 x 6 in x1/2 inch thick. ^ inches gives ample room to have a place for the pad to be bolted down, while having ample room for even a cresent wrench to tighten it. It you do not afix the base then at least drill the floor to install bolts that can be easily pulled out from the top. Anvil bases is one of the love-hate or chevy vs ford arguements. And after a while of using the newly installed item you will have your very own feelings about the situation. But do be openminded. And many of us here agree that three legs is better for the anvil base. Look at pictures and you will see lots of side fixtures that you can add to make your smithing personal and enjoyable. I added a swing around tray to hold different punches while forging items, after welding lots of rings to hold different hammers. Lots of things to think about. Lots of entertainment ahead of you too. Good luck Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 4-legged stands are always a struggle to get sitting flat on the ground. This is even worse if you're outside. Since you have the stand only tacked together, I would make it into a tripod and never have to worry about the issue again. With a stand and anvil that are so light and portable, you never know where you might take the combo in a week or month (could get invited to a demonstration in the near future) and a 3-legged stand will sit perfectly no matter where you go. As for joining the anvil and stand, I'm a huge proponent of using silicone caulk between the two. While this gives you some adhesive bond, it also serves to take the ring out of the anvil and makes things a whole lot more enjoyable to work with. If you're going to be bending around the horn making hooks, or using it as a fuller, there's a very good chance the anvil will tip if it isn't secured to the stand in some fashion. Good looking work, all told. Can't wait to see it finished and being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck in Ms Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Three legs will solve your problem on the concrete floor. I am not so sure about stability while using a twisting fork. I do not like fastening to the floor because I move my anvils according to the size of the job. Not so much with the main one but I have moved it a couple of times. I use a stand like yours for demos and have no problem outside just dropping it into the dirt once or twice. ( I left the pads off for this purpose. ) I agree with the caulk idea if you are sure you will never break it apart for transport. Mine is just sitting in the angle iron, a couple of wraps of chain will cut out the ring. It has never tried to come out but has slide around during twisting. I just move to the vice when I over load it that way. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Well the finish welds are done on the upper portion and the cross braces lower down.... PIcture was taken several days ago before I made the initial post.... As for deadening sound transfer I was considering a piece of 1/2 inch bitch plywood I had intended to put between anvil and stand although RTV sounds pretty good...... As for tool holders.... Was consider three pieces of 3/4 inch ID square tubing welded to one side with about 1 inch between them for hardie tools (same size as anvil hardie hole).... And maybe on other side 3 pieces of 1x1 inch ID square tubing for what ever.... This would give me six locations to drop things into.... I might add a couple of tabs to stand located under heel and horn to put a couple of "J" bolts or "eye" bolts to pull chains over anvil base to secure it to stand... Still not sure on this... As for 3 legs vs 4 legs I hear what many of you are saying and I under stand why, but for some perverse reason I always had in mind a 4 leg stand... I think I will go ahead with it as about all the major welding is done and will use a 3/4 bolt and nut and cut one leg short and put in adjuster.... Really not wanting to bolt anvil/stand to floor at this time as I don't have a dedicated work space yet.... As for usage, that is a unknown as I'm just starting out and do not know what direction my interest will take me.... Luckily I have a local group here that meets once a month to hammer steel (iron).... And a gentleman has offered to "coach" me some as I try to progress.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revtor Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 3/4 bolt and nut AND jam nut. have fun!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Here is latest update... I have added some hardie tool holders on one side and if I do not use them for hardies I may use them for a place for tongs or some other sort of tool... Also with wood insulator between anvil and stand i have a couple of unexpected trays for "things" at sides of anvil base... Added large nut (1/2 inch - ) on each end of stand directly under heel and horn so I can chain the anvil to stand.... Eye bolts are 3/8 inch and drop through nuts, they are something I had in "parts" bins.... Still wrestling with adjuster problem for leg..... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If you decide it's still not satisfactory, you can try the old bucket of sand approach where you cut down a 30 or 55 gallon drum to approximately the right height for your swing then fill it with sand. The anvil will settle a bit over time but this makes a good support. I personally prefer the solid concrete block I poured (can be seen in my avatar pic) - the block plus my anvil weighs a total of about 550 lbs and provides a fine base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Here is what I decided to do about adjuster.... It only has to move up/down about 1/8 inch at most to find "level" on my shop floor, but has movement of about 1/4 to 3/8 inch either way.... This is what finished stand turned out like... Will probably put it all together later today, paint was still not quite dry last night... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 As a farrier, I'm always moving my anvils. My 75# anvil has a 3 legged stand, with a laminated 2x top. I use a 3 point clamp to hold The anvil down, as well as having feet that can be screwed or staked down. My 150# has a laminated hardwood stand, and a hardwood pad that it sets on. I use a peice of "sillpat" a silicon cookie sheet, under the anvil, and between the stump and pad. I use chain, eyes and turnbuckles to hold her together. If you plan on separating the stand and anvil, the plywood and sillpat might be better than RTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I prefer a three sided box for my anvil stands Leaves the back side open to allow you to place your foot under the anvil and is super solid and stable. This one is fabricated from one inch plate - -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 My first reaction is how high have you got that anvil? It looks too high to me unless you are very tall. I have a Buba Rhino which is about wrist height. (That is a 330 pound US anvil). Also I would then say your legs are wrong. They are far too close together. You should splay them so as to give a wider base. Otherwise it is going to be very unstable. My my smallest anvil is a 120 pound Baby Rhino. Even a small one like that has splayed legs on the stand. If you don't want to re-engineer the whole thing I would weld a couple of pieces of heavy plate under the feet. Make these much longer than the spread of the existing legs. If you drill these plates first you can then anchor them to the floor if you want once you decide where it is going to stay. You can then add a bit more stability by adding something to fill the bottom of the legs- some square stock exactly the internal dimension of the legs is best- a bit less than half the height of the legs. Failing that pack the bottom half with concrete. I haven't read right through the thread. How thick is the wall of the box section you have used?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 My first reaction is how high have you got that anvil? It looks too high to me unless you are very tall. I have a Buba Rhino which is about wrist height. (That is a 330 pound US anvil).Also I would then say your legs are wrong. They are far too close together. You should splay them so as to give a wider base. Otherwise it is going to be very unstable. My my smallest anvil is a 120 pound Baby Rhino. Even a small one like that has splayed legs on the stand.If you don't want to re-engineer the whole thing I would weld a couple of pieces of heavy plate under the feet. Make these much longer than the spread of the existing legs. If you drill these plates first you can then anchor them to the floor if you want once you decide where it is going to stay. You can then add a bit more stability by adding something to fill the bottom of the legs- some square stock exactly the internal dimension of the legs is best- a bit less than half the height of the legs. Failing that pack the bottom half with concrete.I haven't read right through the thread. How thick is the wall of the box section you have used?.Anvil is 100lb Vulcan and top of anvil is 32-1/2 inched off of floor (about 1/2 inch higher than my knuckles).... Base of anvil is a 9 inch square and area that stand occupies on floor is about 14 x 14 inches... Seen a lot of pictures of anvils on small blocks of wood "build ups" and stumps... Not sure if Camera angles here may be deceptive... I have torches, grinders and MIG welders I can always change it or build different one if necessary, got to test it out before I start a rehack... I will admit splay angle came out at about 5° and I really did want something closer to 7° though..Square tubing for legs is 2x2x1/8 inch... And I will bet you are going to tell that is wrong too....Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Looks great! I don't think you'll have any problems with the splay of the legs and tipping issues. The hardy hole is almost directly over the rear legs, and that's the only place I could see you doing some heavy sledging. Just remember to work the metal when it's at a yellow heat if you're interested in moving the metal. Red/orange heat is for lighter blows to dress the metal up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I see now. I has thought it was much taller and narrower. Now I have got the dimensions I am much happier. That is an ideal height. It must be the shape of the anvil that put me off. More splay would undoubtedly be better. With the box section you should be OK but I certainly wouldn't have gone any smaller! Anvil is 100lb Vulcan and top of anvil is 32-1/2 inched off of floor (about 1/2 inch higher than my knuckles).... Base of anvil is a 9 inch square and area that stand occupies on floor is about 14 x 14 inches... Seen a lot of pictures of anvils on small blocks of wood "build ups" and stumps... Not sure if Camera angles here may be deceptive... I have torches, grinders and MIG welders I can always change it or build different one if necessary, got to test it out before I start a rehack... I will admit splay angle came out at about 5° and I really did want something closer to 7° though.. Square tubing for legs is 2x2x1/8 inch... And I will bet you are going to tell that is wrong too.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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