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I Forge Iron

proof that one can survive as a traditional blacksmith!


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  Forge welding is fun.  Not easy, and I still need some practice, but fun.  I also have to agree on the fact that modern electrical welds have a very unappealing look to them when juxtaposed with hand-forged iron/steelwork.
  I made a mistake about a month ago where I cut at the wrong soapstone mark.  It was on a piece of 3/8" * 3/4" flat bar that I had drawn out both ends of for the reins of a set of tongs.  After using our SMAW setup on the piece to back together, and cutting in the right spot, I started drawing the neck out between the boss and the bit, and my weld started to crack from some pores.  I ended up having to cut out the crack and fill it in twice before it forged right.  Now you can't even tell I cut in the wrong spot.
  I've since come to several conclusions, which may be wrong, and are as follows:
- If I can help it, I will never leave a finished ornamental piece with an electric weld that I have not heated up and hammered for a better finish and smoother blend.  Even clean welds just don't look right on this kinda stuff.
- If you want to know how good of an electric weld you can do, heat one up every now and then and start beating on it.
- Electric arc welding seems better applied to large longs beads, not joining something only 3/8 of an inch thick.  I was either sticking or burning through the metal.
- If your going to cut somewhere, use a punch-mark, not a soapstone mark.
- I probably would have been better off forge welding the piece back together.
- I need to practice all forms of welding more. 

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simon mate,

i just wanna say you are a champion, i first saw you in "the high street" (top show!) and i thought 'this is a bloke to watch!'

so i looked further into your website and such, and i'm blimmin impressed!!!

this is coming from a 30 year old, industrial blacksmith, in far north queensland, Australia, so you are spanning the globe with your incredible abilities.

thankyou.

woody. 

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Thanks for all the kind remarks made concerning my videos. Trying to remain totally traditional in a modern world is almost impossible and many an old smith has said to me "if Tijou had an arc welder he would have used it" I totally agree with this statement, but it is like anything that anyone wants to do well and to the best of their ability.....you have to know how to do it right before you can ever hope to understand a technique or process, whether you work traditionally or not.In effect, you have to know the rules before you can break them. I was taught by a renowned English smith and the first thing he told me was "Simon, there is no such thing as a self taught Blacksmith" and I am sure that by subscribing and contributing to this most informative site we are all endorsing that statement. Without sharing in our knowledge and ideas, it is that much more difficult for our profession to move forward. My first ever course 20 years ago was tongmaking, a simple topic or so I thought. My tutor made me fireweld the reins to the jaws. It took me three days to get two pieces to stick together and my career nearly ended before it began. I had never been so disappointed in all of my life, as this was something that I really wanted to do and it was so damn difficult. This was my turning point, Blacksmithing was no longer just an option, it was a lifelong challenge.I practised in my own forge for three months solid and then attended another course, I felt on top of the world when I effortlessly welded two pieces together in front of my tutor.He looked at me calmly and said "I see you have been practicing". I was looking for more recognition at my superhuman achievement, but then it dawned on me that Blacksmiths do not become skilled overnight, they have to practice techniques as I did, and on a greater scale than I could have ever imagined. I vowed to myself that Blacksmithing was to become my life and that I would promote it at every opportunity to anyone who wanted to know about it and share my enthusiasm. I was fortunate enough to be pushed into entering one of the County shows about fifteen years ago and this is where I met people such as John B from the Blacksmiths guild and other pivitol figures in the Blacksmithing world such as Bob Hobbs (gold medalist with the worshipful Company of Blacksmiths) and Richard Jones, current live champion Blacksmith,I have never looked back. I am the current UK National champion Blacksmith for the second time and have been reserve twice, I am also a Licentiate of the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths of London (a recognised teacher of the trade)and I always tell my students that we don't just strive to make a living, we make a lifestyle. I am sorry to appear boastful, but when my students say to me "you make it look so easy", I reply that "I was in exactly the same position as you once". Without other smiths graciously passing on their knowledge and expertise I would still be trying to stick those two pieces together and would maybe have taken a different career path altogether. The videos are a little bit of payback and hopefully inspiration to other budding national champion and potential professionals, the techniques that I show are not set in stone and don't need to be religiously followed to get the right result. I still learn many techniques from my students who come to my classes with their own ideas and I still "invent" things that I find have been in existence for thousands of years already. That is the beauty of our profession, you will never know it all. Simon Grant-Jones www.simongrant-jones.com

Thank you Simon for also sharing your thought here, I mean this thread is about you :) I agree with what you say. Take the best from your own heritage and combine it with the best you find all over the world.

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I can't stand the idea of remaining ignorant of something like arc welding for the purpose of maintaining the purity of my craft. I want to be able to do it all with a reasonable level of skill. My personal goal is to master the widest possible range of skills. The list of things I want to do is always getting wider, never narrower. Narrowness is to be avoided at all costs.

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The welding video makes is look so easy. I swear I have done that a hundred times -- no luck. One of the comments suggested that his methods were not the best way to learn to weld. The poster seemed to suggest that the no-flux, sparking-heat welding was somehow inferior. What is wrong with it?

 

That is a totally honest question.

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The welding video makes is look so easy. I swear I have done that a hundred times -- no luck. One of the comments suggested that his methods were not the best way to learn to weld. The poster seemed to suggest that the no-flux, sparking-heat welding was somehow inferior. What is wrong with it?

 

That is a totally honest question.

I have never been able to weld at the temperature he seems to use - although I do cut the blast and soak the material for a few seconds after seeing a few bursting sparks.  Flux also helps prevent excessive oxides from forming that can interfere with a weld.  However, I have successfully welded wrought iron (the material) at a bright snowball heat without flux - for some reason, wrought tends to weld easier than steel (at least for me).  I normally weld at what the Brits usually call "a slippery heat" where the temp to my eye appears as a light yellow and the flux is fluid.  He's just better at fire welding than I am... :D

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The poster seemed to suggest that the no-flux, sparking-heat welding was somehow inferior. What is wrong with it?

 

That is a totally honest question.

 

Nothing is wrong with it, no flux works, you just have to practise and master the technique.

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I have welded without flux but flux allows you to weld at a lower heat.  If you overheat the metal it can break or end up with a rough finish.  So the flux gives you a wider band of temperature to weld at and can lessen the chance of burning the material.  That being said I have seen several British smiths including the video above who do a great job welding without flux.  Wrought iron and pure iron are both wonderful to weld and welds that would be impossible or incredibly difficult to do in mild steel can be done fairly easily. 

 

  Most of my forging  is industrial forging,  This is another way to avoid doing a lot of electric welding.   I do very little welding on work for customers.  .if there is welding to be done to the forgings someone else does it.  Sometimes I even sub it out to  a welding shop myself.  I have a  local CWB certified welding shop who charges  less per hour than I do.  Which is the way it should be, there are a lot more welding shops around than blacksmith shops. 

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The welding video makes is look so easy. I swear I have done that a hundred times -- no luck. One of the comments suggested that his methods were not the best way to learn to weld. The poster seemed to suggest that the no-flux, sparking-heat welding was somehow inferior. What is wrong with it?

 

That is a totally honest question.

 

The honest answer to your question is that sparks indicate the material is burning, which you don't generally want, but in the case of this video, it doesn't actually make much odds as it is ornamental work. Flux will help stop burning, if not wastage (borax is corrosive to iron/steel, if I remember correctly).

I do not particularly want to attract criticism by saying so, but, for the record, it is generally the habit of traditionally trained smiths in this country to dig their work down to find the welding heat. This method can cause oxidation of the work, on top of which it is more difficult to see whether it is burning or not. In my experience if you bring the heat up to the work, away from the blast, there is no need for sparks. It is about balancing the oxygen in the blast and the fuel to create a neutral or reducing atmosphere.

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i dont like the burned look that i seem to get at sparking heat.. but i never heard of another way - what flux do you use dan, if its not borax? could you briefly say exactly what you do if its a bit different - your way might work better for me....

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Beth, when I attended the Hatfield Show this summer Andrew Hall gave me some forge-welding lessons. Revelation number one. The two key things being to build up the fire (i.e. the coke, not the flame) and most importantly to take the metal to its heat slowly. Having achieved the first weld by gentle taps, put it back in the fire and, again, give it time to get the heat in. Before the tutorial I was trying to weld using too hot a fire and too quickly = burnt metal. Now I have a much, much higher success rate and use no flux (see below).

 

That written, on smaller stock - less than 1/2" & down to tiny - I still had problems, it simply doesn't retain the heat well / long enough to weld; until, revelation number two, Mick Maxen gave me some borax powder. Wonderful stuff, and I can't say I have noticed any corrosive problems so far - I am sure that with his standard of work, Mick would not use anything that damages the metal.

 

Being a bit of an historical prig, I had my reservations about use of flux until I came across references to it being used with wrought iron in a couple of old books (silver sand though, not borax). That cleared up my 'ethical' worries and I am now happy to use it.

 

(Oddly, I started out metal-working with silver and gold and have used borax as a soldering flux for over twenty years without question... )

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I gotta pipe in here a wee bit.

First of all Simon Thank you, I watched your video the other day and I just had to go out and weld some in the fire. It was a real struggle for me about 10 or more years ago and now it is second nature with the practice. It is just fun!

I generally use a flux and mostly it is borax. When you are welding fire management is the most important part of it. If your fire is proper flux is not critical. I think I get cleaner prettier welds if I use flux because I get less burnt metal in the finished weld. Having said that I do like Simon does. I heat the piece slowly until I see a spark or two. I then kill the blast and count to 5 or so (depends on the size of the material being welded) pull it from the fire and "sling" the pieces to throw off the scale and then tap them together. Then back i the fire to finish the weld. All of my welds take two heats for the weld portion at least one to stick and one to clean it up. If I am welding rounds into bundles I may take more heats than that since it will take longer to get them all to come together (like for a basket twist).

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Beth, I use anhydrous borax. It is corrosive, but not so that anyone would notice. Using borax you can quite happily weld at an orange heat.

The main problem faced when fire welding is the idea that more blast=more heat=fire weld. My forge makes a pleasing roar when the balance is just right, and that's usually when I've pulled back on the blast.

Next time you are in the area pop in and I will show you my version of fire-welding, with and without flux.

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GNJC thanks - yes ive used borax myself for silver, but always thought us brits were meant to forge steel without flux..... :) i have also tried deeper fire and slower heat, with slightly more success, but maybe i need Deeper and Slower still !! i am intrigued, dan by the orange heat, i find it very difficult to look at the realy bright heats - esspecially when trying to heat it slowly it blinds me even with my o/a goggles (which i always wear cos otherwise i feel like my retinas are getting scorched...)

 

i would LOVE to take you up on that very kind offer dan, that would infact be a total relief - i am coming past soon for more coke as it happens from swan.... i would totally appreciate that. i saw some of your welds against the wall last time, and noted how good they looked..... yes please!

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As I understand it, the problem with borax corrosion is when it bleeds from the joint,

 

Which then raises the question, is it actually fully welded, as there is a capillary action taking place.

 

Question for Beth, How did you clean your borax fluxed silverware/ Then try the same method for steel/iron if you have to use borax.

 

When brazing carbide tips to steel shanks or similar work, we used to use boiling water and a scrubbing medium to clean the areas to avoid corrosion

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john, i just filed sanded and polished the silver, i didnt use anything else to clean it, the finish on the silver didnt alter at all.. but youre not getting it so hot are you? i COULD do that to the steel but if its burned and pitted maybe ive lost too material.. 

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John, I was thinking of borax being corrosive in the fire, as is boric acid, another popular additive in flux mixtures. I might be wrong, but hot + acidic would suggest corrosive. I think its corrosive properties are what make it effective in eating away any oxides in the joint, but that might be "blacksmith science", aka gibberish.

Beth, you'd be most welcome, but please let me know when you might be round as I am not always in.

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