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Hello, to introduce myself, I've just started smithing, pretty new to welding too. Been a wood worker for years and been wrenching on my own cars all my life so metal isn't totally new to me. Father and grandfather were metal workers, I've been around it but just not done much myself until now. I welded up a garden sculpture for a "suprise garden attack" some freinds did for another friend who is fighting cancer. That was so much fun, I was burning wire every chance I got but I found that there are alot of limitations to just Mig welding (I call it cut and paste). So I built a gas forge and a burner using the instructions on Helmut Helenkamp's "Iron-to-live-with" web site. I can't believe people just give that kind of information away for free. Also all of the great blue print pics and instructions on this site. WOW blacksmiths are good people. So now I'm pounding on hot steel every spare minute I can find. The learning curve is steep. I got a 55# anvil mount on a tree stump, a post vise found in a scrap yardm a collection of hammers and I made 3 pairs of tongs by welding on long handles to some vicegrips I had. They're OK but I can see that I'm going to have start making myself a collection of tongs. Any suggestions of what kinds would be the most versitile? I plan on doing mostly ornamental for home and garden, also motorcycle accessories. Oh and another thing I noticed. When people find out I'm working metal they ask for things like knives and trellises like it's nothing, like it's easy and fast. What's up with that? What do you tell people when they ask for stuff?

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George: Welcome. Several answers...

1) There is no such thing as universal tongs. Every pair of tongs has a range of usefulness. It really makes sense to learn to make your own. That way you can make them exactly how you want. Perhaps the most useful first pairs are bolt tongs. There are several discussions on the best books to buy... just look back over the recent forum. You can get a very good start by downloading the manuals here:

Craft publications

If you look at Blacksmith Craft Part 5, there are pretty good directions for making tongs. And in the Blacksmiths Illustrated Manual Part 2, there are excellent pictures of tong configurations, with an accompanying set showing the steps to make them.

2) Unless I have a compelling reason to make something for someone at no charge, I invariably answer the request by agreeing to "help" someone make them. I invite people to come right on over and make whatever it is that they want using my tools and supervision. That way, they get a deep appreciation for the hard work and skill involved. It is amazing how few actually show up with that offer, yet you never have to say "no".

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George's forge,
Welcome to IFI.
Thank goodness that Blacksmiths like Ed Thomas are here to greet you and take the time to share valued advice.
Over the years I have had a few people (that I don’t even know) ask me to make something for them. But when I tell them that I am not set up to do what they want, they really don't understand and be come frustrated.
Then I suggest that they go down to the town welder and have him weld it for them. I have had several people say "but he will charge me".
I found that a lot of people "want something for nothing". Your time and moneys seems to mean nothing to them. Buy the time you figure out the cost of rod, grinding belts/disks, heat source’s, electric, and material, you may as well just tell them “here is $32.76, just take it to the welder and have him weld it, so I can at least save my time”
Then they respond: "But all you have to do is JUST so and so". Then I respond, if that's all there is to it, then why don't you JUST do it your self!
Friends are a different kind of kitty. I will allow a friend or someone who wants to learn about welding or blacksmithing to come over to the shop and I help them accomplish what there needs are.
Be safe!
Old Rusty Ted

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Hello, to introduce myself, I've just started smithing, pretty new to welding too. Been a wood worker for years and been wrenching on my own cars all my life so metal isn't totally new to me. Father and grandfather were metal workers, I've been around it but just not done much myself until now. I welded up a garden sculpture for a "suprise garden attack" some freinds did for another friend who is fighting cancer. That was so much fun, I was burning wire every chance I got but I found that there are alot of limitations to just Mig welding (I call it cut and paste). So I built a gas forge and a burner using the instructions on Helmut Helenkamp's "Iron-to-live-with" web site. I can't believe people just give that kind of information away for free. Also all of the great blue print pics and instructions on this site. WOW blacksmiths are good people. So now I'm pounding on hot steel every spare minute I can find. The learning curve is steep. I got a 55# anvil mount on a tree stump, a post vise found in a scrap yardm a collection of hammers and I made 3 pairs of tongs by welding on long handles to some vicegrips I had. They're OK but I can see that I'm going to have start making myself a collection of tongs. Any suggestions of what kinds would be the most versitile? I plan on doing mostly ornamental for home and garden, also motorcycle accessories. Oh and another thing I noticed. When people find out I'm working metal they ask for things like knives and trellises like it's nothing, like it's easy and fast. What's up with that? What do you tell people when they ask for stuff?

A handy and versitile tong design I was shown goes like this- make some duckbill tongs and then place in vice on drillpress table vertically, jaws up. Drill on center right on the seam so you drill a hole equally into the top and bottom jaw from the tip toward the reins. Next move tongs in vice and do the same thing from the side. The end result is grooves in the top and bottom running end to end and side to side like a plus sign. This helps to grip stock lengthwise or sideways. Also you could opt to swage a vee instead of drilling. Make them in any sizes you need. Dan:)
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