Crunch Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I've been intrigued by Brian Brazeal's use of his rounding hammers, and although I'm a rank amateur metal banger, I've got it in my head that I want to make a hammer with a similar "squashed ball" die on one side of the hammer head and a fairly square, flat surface on the other side. Since I'm such a noobie, I was planning to get a 3# drilling hammer or engineer's hammer from Harbor Freight, and then grind it myself. As a woodworker, I'm a big fan of jigs for doing tricky machining jobs right the first time, so I'm trying to figure out a simple jig to make grinding the "squashed ball" side of the hammer easier. I was thinking of temporarily epoxying an inch or two of dowel to one end of the hammer, and then pivoting the hammer head on the dowel to approximate the (4¾") "basketball" radius for the crown of the hammer, and then removing the dowel to get smaller radii as I grind out toward the edges of the hammer head... Another idea was to tack-weld a piece of ½" drill rod to the center of the hammer head and (with the handle removed), chuck it in a drill press and run the drill press while grinding the radii with an angle grinder. Wish I had a lathe... Has anyone here already "invented this wheel" and/or have any tips on how to do it? I'm hoping to not ruin too many hammers in the process... Thanks in advance for any suggestions. And Brian, if you read this, thank you for the inspiration, instruction and great videos. They're real helpful. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 just clamp the hammer face up in a vice and have at it with an angle grinder! Look at the shape as you grind and stop when it looks right, don't over complicate things for yourself ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you use a HF hammer there is the possibility that it's made of mild steel which gets case hardened so if you grind off more than a 1/16'' you'll get into soft mild steel....Then again you might have a HC hammer head, point is it's a crap shoot so if you can swing it buy a good quality hammer. DB has the right idea, lock it in a vise and go at it with a grinder, preferably wit a soft pad or a flap wheel no coarser than 80 grit or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You could probably start with a standard farrier's turning hammer and get pretty close to the desired profile without a lot of grinding. They are typically round on one side and flat on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have to agree with the just go at it crowd a jig makes sense if you have 100 to do but not for just one. If you don't trust your eye make up a template that you can use to check it as you go to keep things symmetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Do you have access to a lathe that could grab the other end and spin it while you grind it? Strongly suggest you put a box around it with a shop vac sucking up the grinding dust even if you are using a wood lathe! Problem with turning hammer is that they are generally *quite* expensive even on their own. Have you though of forging the face to close to shape and then grinding and re-heat treating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Centaur sells a two lb Nordic for $27 - and they are usually pretty high on pricing.http://www.centaurforge.com/Nordic-2-lb-Hard-Turned-Rounding-Hammer/productinfo/285HT/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Farm store here has engineers hammers of varying sizes. Several years ago I took one in the vise and just crowned one face a bit. The other side I made a ball end. All with a flap wheel on a side grinder. Use a nice comfortable stool to set on and take your time. As a note, there is no relief behind the ball on mine ( read no fullered part like a ball pien) just a rounded end. THIS with the crowned face on the other side has served me well. I WOULD like to have one of Brians hammers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunch Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thank you all for all the good replies. Maybe you're right...maybe I'm overcomplicating things. Just seems like I always ending up grinding/sanding too much off. ("You can cut more OFF, but you can't cut morON!" ... "I cut it three times and it's STILL too short!") Macbruce, thanks for the tip on China Freight case hardened hammers. Does anyone know whether it will be obvious to me when grinding if I cut through the case hardened layer and get into the mild steel (if it is in fact case hardened)? Thomas, yes, I briefly considered forging the hammer to shape and heat treating, etc., but my since my last (and only) foray into that ended up with half the hammer DISAPPEARING into thin air ("Maybe I stirred it TOO much..."), I thought better of it. Now I know why the work should be in the neutral or reducing part of the fire, not the oxidizing part...expensive lesson. Again, thank you for all the replies. I'm learning a lot from you folks, and enjoying this new hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 36.75 according to the link you posted. I picked up a Vaughan & Bushnell"Linesman's Hammer" at the fleamarket today for $2; but I'll have to replace the handle so it will cost another $1 and the time to switch them. Not the straight peen, already got one of those) but the double faced one shown here: http://www.vaughanmfg.com/shopping/Products/36-OZ-Supersteel-Linemans-Hammer__L36.aspx I could make it into a turning hammer but I have a couple of those already. Probably just make it another choice for my students. I've run out of space on my hammer rack but still pick up styles and weights I don't have when I can find them cheap. I have one oddball that sat on the rack for over a decade and a half unused but when I needed it it made a tricky job *fast* and *easy*! Time to build a bigger rack! (Actually to build another rack and split them between the forging area and the armouring area, the non-ferrous area already has their own rack...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Man this is different from the way Brian does it! So...take the handle out of the HF hammer...throw it in the fire / charcoal...but not too hot. Yep red hot. Let the fire go out on its own...no blowers on. Make yourself some handle drifts to shape and support the eye. And this step is optional, but preferred. Clean up the now cold hammer and lets warm her up to forging temp and insert the drift. Forge the face to your desired shape, whether ball, vertical peen, cross peen, or rounding. Forging the rounding hammer is best accomplished in the rounding die while the back is forced with the flatter! But lets face it...the idea is to move the hot metal into the shape you desire. A single smith can do this quite handsomely with another hammer by differential heating. Heat only the end you want to change the most in the hot coals and bang away as necessary. The drift will keep the body from collapsing (VERY IMPORTANT). So now we are through forging. Next starts the grind. SIMPLE when shown by Brian. Look at the hammer face on...imagine a clock. And that is how we grind. Start from the 12 oclock and grind down straight across to the 6. Then 6 to the 12. Then 9 to the 3 o'clock and back. Then 10:30 to 4:30 and back, and the 1:30 to the 7:30 and return, What is happening is you are averaging out the little inundations from the forging. This can be done with angle grinder (flap disc) or the belt grinder. I have done this myself so I know from experience. Remember this is soft metal to be re-heat treated later. Grind with med size particals then on down to fine grain. Use plenty of water and do wear gloves. A jig is not required. Heat until non-magnetic...douse into CLEAN water with agitation continuously for quite a while. You will quite likely hear the hammer "cry" two times in the water as the heat treatment is being accomplished. NEVER bring the hammer out of water until it is cold enough to hold by hand under water! Brian uses a bucket that is a bit larger than 5 gallons and always clean water. Then I secondary treat in my wife's oven on a cookie sheet for 4 hours at 400 degrees. Somehow the metal does not seem to react to the same temps as does the cookies that used to be there...colder. A nice golden color will be all over the hammer. So then you will have the sexiest hammer in your shop or neighborhood. NOTED:1)making a rounding die is not too complicated and can be accomplished by a single person. It is also most likely not on your desired to-do list. 2)HF does have some good , in-expensive hammers that take to heat treatment. Maybe not all. I know from experience that the ball peens I bought were good quality! 3)Heat treating will bring up many discussions as to use veggie oil, water, or miracle mud , etc . It is a HF hammers so just go for it. 4)Removing the handle will require you to learn another skill that is well needed. SO think about the shape of handle you are gonna replace it with and start from there. Get the basic shape started and insert, then finish to your desire. Time required to do this project...for me: Late pm remove the handle and put in the fire..consume proper guidance fluid...let die down over that night or evening. Forge the head after heat is started...30 minutes after reshaping hammer eyes to my drifts Cool under a fan and then wire brush...1 hour Grind as necessary.....1 hour ...maybe....depends on guidance fluid Heat treating...30 min max Polish grind with fine material ....15 min Oven treat....4 hours install handle....shape...grind..oil...shape...smooth...1 hour maybe more. Rewards: YOU HAVE just completed your first hammer build. Now go build you some Mark Avery hammers, or Brian Brazeal type (best done in his presence and instruction). enjoy. CARRY ON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunch Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 maybe....depends on guidance fluid LOL twice! Thank you David for the great "how to" ... that doesn't sound bad at all. Hammers are en route on the Brown Truck...will report back. Thanks again, everyone. This site is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I like my hammers cheap and like Thomas I get them at yard, garage, tag and swap meets, that way I'm saving the environment by not having trucks using fuel and all that's associated with buying a new hammer. On the other hand I'm not spending a lot of money and helping the economy grow either. Any way if I get a used hammer it is in most cases better than many of the new ones and if I mess it up grinding on it well no big loss but most of the ones I have purchased have turned out to be pretty good tools. You just can't beat a couple of bucks or less for a head and then another few dollars for a handle and since you're a wood worker you could make your own. I have rounding hammers that have cost me anywhere from a $150, a Jim Keith, to$1 plus a remade use handle, and which did I prefer, the $1 hammer of course. Oh, the Jim Keith is a really nice hammer but it's handle is made for a man with a really tiny hand and the handle I put on the $1 Diamond Brand hammer came off a sledge hammer and fills the hand. I have reworked the faces on all my hammers to get rid of sharp corners, bad transitions and the like, those are just part of getting a hammer ready for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 36.75 according to the link you posted. I picked up a Vaughan & Bushnell"Linesman's Hammer" at the fleamarket today for $2; but I'll have to replace the handle so it will cost another $1 and the time to switch them. Not the straight peen, already got one of those) but the double faced one shown here: http://www.vaughanmfg.com/shopping/Products/36-OZ-Supersteel-Linemans-Hammer__L36.aspx I could make it into a turning hammer but I have a couple of those already. Probably just make it another choice for my students. I've run out of space on my hammer rack but still pick up styles and weights I don't have when I can find them cheap. I have one oddball that sat on the rack for over a decade and a half unused but when I needed it it made a tricky job *fast* and *easy*! Time to build a bigger rack! (Actually to build another rack and split them between the forging area and the armouring area, the non-ferrous area already has their own rack...) True, I copied the wrong line. The model 285 hammer is $27; the -HT suffix is $37. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Entrance Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I've got an HF 3# engineer's hammer that I'm in the process of converting to a straight peen. I've ground well past what I would think any case hardening (if that's what it had) would go, and I haven't noticed any difference in how the grinding is going, whether harder or easier. I could be in the middle of a chunk of mild steel and not know it. Or I could be lucky and have a good piece of steel that's been decently heat treated. I probably won't know what I've got until I give it a test drive this weekend. Worst case is that I've only spent about $8.50 (it was on sale) to get some practice on shaping a hammer head. To me, it's worth the gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 when determining if a hammer needs heat treat.........from whatever source, bring it home, hit the corner of a 1/2" square bar with both faces......if a bad ding in the face happens, grind it off and re heat treat....if not, you got a good hammer as far as heat treat goes, probably still need to dress both ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Entrance Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks - I will include that as part of the test drive. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You can wrap the head in tape and draw reference lines with a sharpie. With the cheap hammer I destroyed, it went noticably softer somewhere about 3/8 inch of stock removal. Yes, you can dress a hammer to death. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 This may be of interest: Hammer Modification Rich did this for the upcoming knife chat but pertains to all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Dodge...I am glad you provided that link for us. As one who has ground a bunch of hammers before I met Brian and Lyle, this is a good example of alternatives on hardened hammer heads. Some newer people to the craft are learning about hammer face shapes and unfortunately may not have mentors or organizations to attend. Rich's examples are a good beginning, if not a great beginning for a smith or blade guy. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 to grind a radius that is equal, simply do like you do when you draw down square to round. Grind across the face, then turn 90, then turn 45 and so on. Square to octagon, to 16 then round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Any pics of progress on this hammer? I altered a ball pein a while back and I'm working on a larger rounding hammer at the moment. I can never quite tell if its a ball or just flat with very curved edges. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Like the faces on the clock, 12-6, 3-9, 2-8, 10-4, 5-11, 1-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Sam doesn't have a digital clock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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